============================================================
From : John A. Stocker <jstocker@*******.com>
To : <wtnb@mac.com>
Date : 2000- 8- 26 Sat. 7:33 AM
Subject : VERY impressive
Your G3/500 Color Classic is fantastic!
I'm in awe...having built a
similar computer myself, I know how much work is involved. Your
back
panel really looks superb and professional. Hats off to a splendid
job!
I do have one question. Why can your
computer run with only 2 small
additional power supplies? I had tried something similar without
luck,
there wasn't enough power for a 6500 motherboard, not even with
2
additional 20 watt power supplies for the hard drive and fans.
Do some
Color Classics have stronger power supplies than others?
I would love to join CCSCC, but I'm afraid
the fact that I don't know
Japanese would be a hindrance...
John Stocker
jstocker@*******.com
http://glowsoft.com/sfs/pcc
============================================================
From : S.Watanabe <wtnb@mac.com>
To : "John A. Stocker" <jstocker@*******.com>
Date : 2000- 8- 27 Sun. 2:25 PM
Subject : Re: VERY impressive
Hi, Mr.Stocker
Thank you for your mail.
I saw your web page.
Good job!!!
You should upgrade your CC to G3.
> I do have one question. Why can
your computer run with only 2 small
> additional power supplies?
Gazelle logic board needs 12V,5V.
3.3V is optional.
Gazelle logic board generates 3.3V used by CPU from 5V on itself.
If you don't use PCI, supplying 3.3V from outside may not be needed.
But if you use PCI card that needs 3.3V, gazelle needs 3.3V from
outside.
But alchemy can't generate 3.3V on itself.
Then supplying 3.3V from outside is essential for the alchemy.
The CC/G3 make additional 3.3V from 5V by 3-terminals regulator.
The needed capacity of 12V is not so
large.
But that of 5V is large.
And CC/G3 needs more because of generating 3.3V and G3 card.
You should get enough capacity of 5V.
This is very important.
> Do some Color Classics have stronger power supplies than others?
I think all the CC has the same power supply.
My CC/G3 has three power supplies.
1.original power supply on the analog board
2.additional power supply for HDD
3.additional power supply for logic board 5V
The capacity of the #2 must have enough
capacity for HDD spin-up .
And it is better to select latest revision Sonnet L2/G3.
The consumption of electrical power may be low.
Second Important thing of CC/G3 is heat.
You should solve the heat issue.
> I would love to join CCSCC, but I'm afraid the fact that
I don't know
> Japanese would be a hindrance...
Please join us.
If you decide to join us, please inform me.
MISUTHiKU
S.Watanabe
wtnb@mac.com
============================================================
From : John Stocker <jstocker@*******.com>
To : "S.Watanabe" <wtnb@mac.com>
Date : 2000- 8- 28 Mon. 7:34 AM
Subject : Re: VERY impressive
You have no idea how many of my questions
you just answered. Thanks
so much! Had I known this, I might not have needed the Quadra
630
power supply. I do intend to convert another Color Classic, this
info
will be quite useful.
Which brings me to my second question... :)
I have an Alchemy logic board (from a
5400). This board is brand new,
and works fine when placed inside a Performa 6500 case. However,
it
does not work in my Color Classic. All Gazelle logic boards work
flawlessly (I am using one right now), as does an older Quadra
630
logic board. Would you happen to know why this is?
(I am supplying it with 3.3 volts. I
have checked this with a
multimeter)
> Thank you for your mail.
> I saw your web page.
> Good job!!!
> You should upgrade your CC to G3.
I definitely plan on upgrading as soon
as I can afford it. Cooling
should not be a problem, as I have a fan blowing air directly
at the
location of the L2 slot.
> Please join us.
> If you decide to join us, please inform me.
Count me in! What do I need to do?
Best Regards,
John Stocker
jstocker@*******.com
http://glowsoft.com/sfs/pcc
============================================================
From : S.Watanabe <wtnb@mac.com>
To : John Stocker <jstocker@*******.com>
Date : 2000- 8- 28 Mon. 10:26 PM
Subject : Re: VERY impressive
Hi,Mr.Stocker
Sorry for my poor English.
> I have an Alchemy logic board (from
a 5400). This board is brand new,
> and works fine when placed inside a Performa 6500 case. However,
it
> does not work in my Color Classic. All Gazelle logic boards
work
Uhmmm,...
I think that it is lack(shortage) of 3.3 volts.
> (I am supplying it with 3.3 volts.
I have checked this with a
> multimeter)
Really?
Is it certain?
Some earlier revision Q630 power supply unit don't have 3.3 volts
out.
If it has 3.3 volts out, is the capacity of 3.3 volts enough?
Try boot-up with only minimal RAM.
Without SCSI device, serial device and PCI device.
What happens?
No sound? No happy-mac or "?"disk? Black-out? HDD can
spin-up?
Please inform me.
> Count me in! What do I need to do?
OK,I inform it CCSCC members.
Please wait.
The CCSCC is good.
The information on my last e-mail was shown by Mr.Tak.
He is honorary president of CCSCC.
Best Regards,
MISUTHiKU
S.Watanabe
wtnb@mac.com
============================================================
From : John A. Stocker <jstocker@*******.com>
To : "S.Watanabe" <wtnb@mac.com>
Date : 2000- 8- 29 Tue 4:05 AM
Subject : Re: VERY impressive
> Sorry for my poor English.
I am the one who needs to apologize.
Your English is far better than my
Japanese :)
> Really?
> Is it certain?
> Some earlier revision Q630 power supply unit don't have 3.3
volts out.
> If it has 3.3 volts out, is the capacity of 3.3 volts enough?
3.3 volts is being supplied by an LT1585CT-3.3
regulator. I have
verified that the 5400 is getting something close to 3.3 volts.
The
multimeter
is not very precise, but the needle clearly points to a little
over 3V when
I test pin 7 and 8.
The regulator supplies enough power for
the needs of a 6500 logic
board and a Voodoo3 PCI card. This is a demanding configuration.
The
6500 board will not work without the regulator, so I assume 3.3V
is being
supplied.
> Try boot-up with only minimal RAM.
> Without SCSI device, serial device and PCI device.
> What happens?
> No sound? No happy-mac or "?"disk? Black-out? HDD
can spin-up?
> Please inform me.
I pulled all parts off the board, and
connected only a keyboard and mouse.
The 5400 board makes a startup sound, but then does nothing. The
screen
remains dark and the hard drive is not accessed.
> OK,I inform it CCSCC members.
> Please wait.
>
> The CCSCC is good.
> The information on my last e-mail was shown by Mr.Tak.
> He is honorary president of CCSCC.
Thank you very much!
Best Regards,
John Stocker
jstocker@*******.com
http://glowsoft.com/sfs/pcc
============================================================
First, I must apologize you.
Your joining to the CCSCC is not approved.
I'm so sorry.
There are some rules with the CCSCC.
Some of them are shown below.
I didn't know these rules well.
1.who loves CC
2.who has or wants to have CC
3.who shows a will to join at "@nifty Macintosh users forum(FMACUS)
#8 message board" by oneself
@nifty is the Japanese commercial BBS
like AOL.
The reason of rule#3 is need to communicate each other.
And the CCSCC doesn't have wide-opened message board on the internet.
So the CCSCC can't support adequately about modifying CC, if a
member can't see the @nifty message board.
Some people couldn't join to the CCSCC with that reason.
I'm very sorry.
If you ask me, I gave you any information that I know on CC.
-----------------------
I still suspect 3.3V.
I told that CPU on gazelle doesn't need
outer 3.3V.
(I also told that CPU on alchemy must need outer 3.3V.)
And Mr.Tak. told that most PCI card are 5V-3.3V Hybrid.
If Voodoo can work with only 5V, gazelle with Voodoo can boot-up
without outer 3.3V.
Please try booting-up without LT1585
regulator.
I think gazelle with Voodoo can boot-up without outer 3.3V.
If it can boot-up, it is not certain that your 3.3V circuit is
work correctly.
The next problem to be solved is failure
of booting-up with alchemy.
Does LT1585 regulator have heat sink?
Did you use silicon grease between regulator and heat sink?
Cooling regulator is enough?
If cooling is not enough, the voltage become higher than 3.3V.
Supplied 3.3V must be 3.3V accurately.
> I pulled all parts off the board,
and connected only a keyboard and mouse.
> The 5400 board makes a startup sound, but then does nothing.
The screen
> remains dark and the hard drive is not accessed.
Considering this, I think CPU on alchemy
can not work.
I think the reason is instability of 3.3V.
Uhmm...
I want to speak and write English well.
MISUTHiKU
S.Watanabe
Please change my e-mail address to ********@nifty.com
Oh, you have Cinema Display!!!!
You are rich!!!!!
============================================================
From: John Stocker <jstocker@*******.com>
To: ********@nifty.com
Subject: Re: Sorry!
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:21:49 -0700
> Some people couldn't join to the
CCSCC with that reason.
> I'm very sorry.
> If you ask me, I gave you any information that I know on
CC.
No apology necessary! Rules are rules.
If at a later date
CCSCC uses a more accessable message board, I'll try to join
again. :)
> Please try booting-up without LT1585
regulator.
> I think gazelle with Voodoo can boot-up without outer 3.3V.
> If it can boot-up, it is not certain that your 3.3V circuit
is work correctly.
This is strange...
I disconnected the 3.3V regulator. The
6500 board would work,
but could not access the hard disk- it gave only a flashing
floppy disk icon. Reconnecting 3.3V enabled use of the IDE hard
disk. Could the IDE controller need 3.3V?
> The next problem to be solved is
failure of booting-up with alchemy.
> Does LT1585 regulator have heat sink?
> Did you use silicon grease between regulator and heat sink?
> Cooling regulator is enough?
It has a small heat sink with thermal
grease. The heat sink
is only lukewarm to the touch even after hours of use.
> If cooling is not enough, the voltage
become higher than 3.3V.
> Supplied 3.3V must be 3.3V accurately.
I think you found my problem! My multimeter
shows less
than 3.3V, about 3.1V.
> Considering this, I think CPU on
alchemy can not work.
> I think the reason is instability of 3.3V.
Excellent deduction! But why is LT1585
giving less than
3.3V? I think the regulator is OK. I ordered 3 of them
and all give 3.1V. This is why I thought my meter was
wrong. Could all 3 regulators be flawed? Is my circuit
bad?
> Uhmm...
> I want to speak and write English well.
I have no trouble at all understanding
your English. It
really is quite good...
> Oh, you have Cinema Display!!!!
> You are rich!!!!!
I _was_ rich :)
John Stocker
jstocker@*******.com
http://glowsoft.com/sfs/pcc
============================================================
Hi, Mr,Stocker
> I disconnected the 3.3V regulator.
The 6500 board would work,
> but could not access the hard disk- it gave only a flashing
> floppy disk icon. Reconnecting 3.3V enabled use of the IDE
hard
> disk. Could the IDE controller need 3.3V?
Does your outer 3.3V circuit connected
to original power supply or outer additional power supply?
If your outer 3.3V circuit connected to original power supply,
I think it is lack of total power.
Then HDD can't spin-up adequately. The RPM of HDD can't be up
to the adequate speed?
With outer HDD or outer CD-ROM drive, can it boot-up?
If not, it is strange......
> Excellent deduction! But why is
LT1585 giving less than
> 3.3V? I think the regulator is OK. I ordered 3 of them
> and all give 3.1V. This is why I thought my meter was
> wrong. Could all 3 regulators be flawed? Is my circuit
> bad?
Uhmm...
It may be bad with the multimeter or the circuit.
Is your regulator fixed voltage type
correctly?
LT1585 series also has changeable voltage type.
MISUTHiKU
S.Watanabe
********@nifty.com
============================================================
From: John Stocker <jstocker@*******.com>
To: "S.Watanabe" <*******@nifty.com>
Subject: Found My Problem
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:21:00 -0700
It seems my lt1585 is giving no voltage
at all. What I measured before was the
3.3V provided by the gazelle motherboard.
I'm not sure why the regulator isn't working. It's not a very complex thing.
5V to left pin.
Ground center pin.
Right pin supposedly outputs 3.3V.
I turn on the power and test it. Left
pin - 5V. Center pin - 0V, grounded.
Right pin - dead as disco. I tested 3 of these regulators separately,
and all
are non-functional. Perhaps I am frying my lt1585's when I solder
them in
place? Are they really so fragile?
Perhaps voltage regulators really aren't
so simple, and I need to do far more
research. This really makes me feel like a gorilla fixing a pocket
watch. If
you know off the top of your head why none of my attempts worked,
please let me know.
Thanks so much for helping me out. I would never have found the problem on my own.
Best Regards,
John Stocker
jstocker@*******.com
==============================================================
The last mail that I've sent to Mr.Stocker had not been saved by me.
I think the content was .......
>5V to left pin.
>Ground center pin.
>Right pin supposedly outputs 3.3V.
is wrong.
LEFT GND
CENTER +3.3V OUT
RIGHT +5V IN
is right
Confirm with the spec sheet.
http://www.linear-tech.com/prod/datasheet.html?datasheet=90
http://www.linear-tech.com/pdf/sn158457.pdf
http://www.linear-tech.com/pdf/lt1584.pdf
==============================================================
Copyright (C) 2001,2002,2003,2007 J.Stocker & MISUTHiKU. All Rights Reserved.