1

         1                IN THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI
                               COUNTY OF HARRISON
         2

         3

         4
               Mississippi Development Authority
         5     In Re: Statewide Seismic Rules
                      and Regulations Information
         6            Meeting, Biloxi, Mississippi

         7

         8

         9

        10

        11          Taken at the J.L. Scott Marine Education
                    Center and Aquarium, 115 Beach
        12          Boulevard, Biloxi, Mississippi, on
                    Tuesday, May 24, 2005, beginning at 7:04
        13          p.m.

        14

        15

        16

        17

        18

        19

        20

        21

        22                        REPORTED BY:

        23              Natalie R. Seymour, CSR No. 1637
                           Simpson Burdine & Migues
        24                    Post Office Box 635
                          Gulfport, Mississippi  39502
        25                       (228) 863-4455




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         1               MR. HEIDEL:  Thank you for being here

         2          this evening in this informational meeting

         3          about the seismic regulations for the state

         4          of Mississippi, and not only offshore, but

         5          onshore seismic in the state of Mississippi.

         6               My name is Jimmy Heidel.  I'm working

         7          with MDA on the seismic regulations and the

         8          policies and procedures for drilling

         9          according to Bill 2853 passed in the 2004

        10          session in the Mississippi legislature.

        11               This evening, it's my pleasure to

        12          introduce Jack Moody that will be conducting

        13          the presentation shortly.  He is with MDA

        14          now, recently with the Department of

        15          Environmental Quality.  He is a geologist and

        16          very much aware of the situation on the Gulf

        17          Coast.

        18               We have Walter Watters with the Attorney

        19          General's office.  He's here with us.

        20          Walter, would you hold up your hand, please?

        21          And Scott Hamilton with the Mississippi

        22          Development Authority.

        23               As you're well aware, or maybe you're

        24          not, the law requires the Mississippi

        25          Development Authority to go through the




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         1          Secretary of State, the Attorney General's

         2          office, Mississippi Marine Resources, Fish

         3          and Wildlife of the state of Mississippi to

         4          coordinate all of this, which we've been

         5          doing, to make sure that the regulations meet

         6          all the environmental regulations as well as

         7          the new technology available to be able to do

         8          seismic offshore and onshore in the state of

         9          Mississippi.

        10               With that, I'll turn it over to Jack

        11          Moody to make his presentation.

        12               MR. MOODY:  Okay.  We'll see how this

        13          goes.  Paul Vessie, my friend, tattooed me

        14          when he was coming in.  And I'm not sure what

        15          this means, but at any rate, we really

        16          appreciate the turnout tonight.  We

        17          appreciate y'all turning out.  Obviously, we

        18          are talking about something that has huge

        19          sensitivities here on the Coast.

        20               A little bit about my background.  Jimmy

        21          alluded to it.  At DEQ, working for Henry

        22          Laird and Gail Singley, I was the division

        23          director for the energy and coastal division.

        24          It was under these two disciplines, one

        25          coastal geology, seaway banking -- Dorsey was




                                                              4

         1          our coastal drill -- coastal geologist.  I

         2          was distracted by the No Drilling sign.

         3               And after Steve came down and worked for

         4          the Department of Marine Resources, then Kyle

         5          Schmidt came in, the point being that I have

         6          been involved in the coastal issues here on

         7          the Coast as a scientist for about 12 years.

         8          I've spent an awful lot of time on the Coast,

         9          loved it, loved being on the islands.

        10               The recent meeting that -- this year

        11          sponsored in Gulfport where Walter Anderson's

        12          daughter talked about we all need our

        13          islands.  I've sat on Horn Island on those

        14          big sand dunes looking south, and there

        15          wasn't a soul around.  And those are

        16          wonderful experiences.

        17               But at any rate, I have some touch, I

        18          think, with the Coast.  It's not lopsided.

        19          I'm also -- My background is a petroleum

        20          geologist.  I've had 17 years in the

        21          business, and then, of course, I have 17

        22          years with the State in that capacity.

        23               So with that, we would like to go

        24          forward.  I am going to try to fly through my

        25          presentation.  I'm trying to get some correct




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         1          information out to you.  This is your night.

         2          This is your night, not mine, but I feel like

         3          we've got to start off with some basic

         4          information, get everybody on the same page,

         5          and then we'll open up the -- we're

         6          interested in listening to your comments.

         7               AUDIENCE:  It's our night.

         8               MR. MOODY:  It is your night.

         9               Okay.  First of all, for those of you

        10          who are not familiar, in the Mississippi

        11          statute, as an oil and gas producer, we're

        12          ranked number 12 in the oil-producing states.

        13          That's in volume per year.  Number 16 in

        14          natural gas.  In '04 -- it's somewhere

        15          between 900 million and a billion dollars of

        16          gross revenue.

        17               Of that, there is a six-percent

        18          severance tax if we use this 900 million.

        19          And I'm obviously rounding numbers.

        20          Fifty-four billion are in severance tax.

        21          Four percent of that or two-thirds of it goes

        22          to the state.  The part that goes to the

        23          state under normal conditions, 97-and-a-half

        24          percent of that money goes to the educational

        25          trust fund.  The other two percent goes to




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         1          the counties in which the production is

         2          coming from.

         3               If you assume another component of this,

         4          there are land owners out there.  There are

         5          people that own farms and they own minerals,

         6          and they have royalty.  And that cut right

         7          there -- just assume 18 percent.

         8          Eighteen percent of that gross value, that's

         9          another 162 billion dollars that's

        10          distributed to Mississippi citizens annually,

        11          at least in '04.  That number goes up and

        12          down, but it's significant revenue.  The oil

        13          and gas business is a significant piece to

        14          the overall economy in Mississippi.

        15               How we got to this point, what we're

        16          talking about tonight -- the program has been

        17          transferred from DEQ and MDA.  It is required

        18          that rules and regs be set up under MDA.

        19               We started off by taking the existing

        20          rules and regs, and we're having to do the

        21          name changes, and then while we have

        22          opportunity, we're going to upgrade.  So

        23          we've got rules and regs that have been

        24          operating for decades.

        25               In the state, over 30,000 wells have




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         1          been drilled.  Five of those were drilled

         2          offshore out there.  For those of you from

         3          around here, Chevron was the last one to

         4          drill in 1988 near Cat Island.  There is tens

         5          of thousands of miles of seismic all over the

         6          state that have been acquired successfully

         7          without dire consequences and adverse

         8          impacts.

         9               The Department of Natural Resources had

        10          rules and regs.  Those were moved to DEQ.

        11          They were slightly modified at that time.

        12          And now they're being moved to MDA.  And,

        13          again, we're not starting and building

        14          something from scratch.  These basic rules

        15          and regulations have been in existence for

        16          decades.  And they've done a good job over a

        17          lot of drilling and a lot of seismic activity

        18          in the state.

        19               The legislature, in 2004, made

        20          significant changes to the handling of the

        21          offshore -- you will remember that -- well,

        22          you won't remember.  At DEQ, the entire Sound

        23          was open for somebody to come in and say, we

        24          want to drill a block, and wherever it was,

        25          we would move into here, and we would begin




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         1          to process that.

         2               In the 2004 legislation, basically the

         3          coastal delegation and industry got together

         4          and worked out a compromise.  And I'll show

         5          you the result and the compromise on the map

         6          that we have.

         7               In the maps that we see right here, this

         8          part right here in the red on these maps are

         9          the only blocks that are available for

        10          leasing and drilling at this time.

        11               There was some comments about, why would

        12          we have the hearing in Jackson?  I said, this

        13          is a statewide issue.  This is a map of one

        14          of the seismic clearinghouses, if you will,

        15          and this is the seismic coverage for

        16          Mississippi.  And what I'm trying to show

        17          here, obviously, is that seismic is not a

        18          coastal issue.  Seismic is a statewide issue,

        19          and we're here.  And Friday, we will be

        20          discussing seismic rules and regulations.

        21               So this is a very big -- a very big

        22          consideration for the entire state.  Here we

        23          are down here, and you can look at the

        24          seismic that exists.  To put it into

        25          perspective of today's operating capabilities




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         1          of the contractors, there was just completed

         2          in Jackson -- for those of you who are

         3          familiar with it, we had a very large

         4          reservoir there.  We tried a number of

         5          wildlife management areas on the northern end

         6          of that where there are very sensitive

         7          environments.  And then the economy to the

         8          north of Jackson is just booming.  I mean,

         9          the urban development is just outrageous.

        10          That whole project -- and this was about a

        11          135, 140-square mile project.  In and among

        12          all of that infrastructure, they tiptoed

        13          through the wildlife areas.  They wiggled in

        14          and out of all kinds of development that's

        15          going on, and there have been no adverse

        16          impacts from that entire project.  It's a

        17          very professional approach.  And today's

        18          seismic industry can operate in all sorts of

        19          environments successfully.

        20               This is the map that we're talking about

        21          displayed and all sides here, and it's a new

        22          GIS.  This is the locational map that is

        23          cited in the legislation.  Also, I want you

        24          to bear in mind these numbers right here.

        25               From Harrison County -- you know, I'm




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         1          ballparking -- each of these squares you see

         2          right here are three miles by three miles,

         3          offshore miles.  So I just said -- I said,

         4          okay.  From Harrison County, it looks like

         5          we're averaging anywhere from eight to

         6          ten miles out from the shoreline.

         7               Incidentally, this map is available

         8          online at that website.

         9               Years ago, for those of you who

        10          remember, and I imagine Gail and Henry can't

        11          forget it, we were approached by a company to

        12          do some offshore drilling, and the view shed

        13          idea came up very early on, so I think --

        14          Steve, were you still with us at that time?

        15          Okay.  You and Gary -- I think Gary Hopkins

        16          and the three of us went over to Alabama.

        17          And what we wanted to do was to figure out

        18          what this view shed thing is.  If we hear a

        19          technical issue, we're going to respond to

        20          that technical issue by going out there and

        21          figuring out is it true or is it not true.

        22               So our response to the clutter on the

        23          horizon from wells that might be located

        24          three, four, five miles, sometimes seven --

        25          and I've heard people want us to be 12 miles




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         1          offshore.

         2               So we went over there, and this is one

         3          of the shallow gas platforms in the

         4          Mississippi Sound on the Alabama side.  Here

         5          is the well right here.  The well is drilled

         6          here, okay, and underwater there's a pipe

         7          running to the platform.  It comes up here.

         8          And they can process the gas.  Sometimes when

         9          you produce gas, there's a little bit of

        10          water mixed with it.  You separate out the

        11          water.  And then if you're going into a sales

        12          line that's of a higher pressure than what

        13          you're producing, you have to have a

        14          compressor up there to compress it up to the

        15          right pressure and send it to market.  So

        16          those things happen on the platform.

        17               And here is the wellhead.  Here is the

        18          picture 500 feet from that structure.  Here

        19          is the structure from one mile.  That's this

        20          platform right here.  This right here on the

        21          horizon is that platform at two miles, and

        22          here we are at three miles, and I think it's

        23          located right there.

        24               Again, that was our attempt using a

        25          55-millimeter lens, which we inquired at the




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         1          photo shops of what would be a good lens

         2          length to try to get the perspective close to

         3          the human eye, and that's what they

         4          recommended.

         5               Okay.  The rule for developing

         6          methodology, starting with the existing DEQ,

         7          we set out a target of June of '05 for the

         8          seismic.  We looked at this thing.  Generally

         9          speaking, where could we improve the rules

        10          and regs, the overall framework?

        11          Specifically, we knew that we had to address

        12          modern technology.

        13               What we had at DEQ hadn't even addressed

        14          3D yet.  And then we went and looked at

        15          current regulatory issues, i.e.,

        16          environmental concerns.  Generally speaking,

        17          these rules and regs have improved over time,

        18          30,000 wells, tens of thousands of miles of

        19          seismic.  These rules and regs have worked

        20          well.

        21               We worked into the new rules and regs 3D

        22          seismic modern technology and also the

        23          flexion techniques using this air gun, which

        24          is a compressed air-type apparatus for the

        25          source.




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         1               We worked very closely with Bill

         2          Walker's DMR.  Those people are great.

         3          They're the eyes and ears on the Coast.  They

         4          are what you will see as the ASA, the

         5          Appropriate Supervising Agency.  This is

         6          their territory.  We will work like mad with

         7          these people initiating programs and

         8          activities.

         9               We are very closely working with Bill,

        10          and they did a great job.  Wildlife,

        11          Fisheries and Parks, DEQ, Attorney General's

        12          office, Secretary of State, we talked with

        13          all of our counterparts in Texas, Louisiana,

        14          and Alabama.

        15               We're out to make the best rules and

        16          regs and the safest operation, the best

        17          operation we possibly can.  And we talked to

        18          everybody who's got some suggestions.

        19               At this point, I guess -- I told --

        20          Jennifer Buchanan and I both mentioned this:

        21          I came down to the Coast, having the

        22          opportunity to speak to SMEACO.  And I told

        23          them, I'm here to hear good ideas.  I really

        24          want good ideas.  And if we can get them, I

        25          promise you, we're going to run those




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         1          rabbits.

         2               And in the course of conversation,

         3          Jennifer held up her hand, and she said, you

         4          know, Alabama is just leasing property right

         5          on -- right near the NEER.  And if we're

         6          going to lease the same properties near the

         7          NEER on this side, down just south of the

         8          NEER, she says, if there's some discoveries,

         9          it's going to be cluttered with wells and

        10          platforms.  Is there anything you can do

        11          about that?  Golly, that sounds like a

        12          common-sense good idea.  So that one got

        13          written down with five other ideas.

        14               So I got back in.  And to make a long

        15          story short so I don't take your evening, I

        16          talked with Alabama.  We will work in that

        17          direction.  It's called a volunteer unit.  If

        18          there is a common reservoir on the state

        19          line, we will sit down, and we will try to

        20          come to terms so that if it's a 50/50 split,

        21          so be it.  And the only wells that will be

        22          drilled will be drilled to develop that

        23          reservoir.  Mississippi's side won't be

        24          leasing to somebody else and having to

        25          compete with double infrastructure.




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         1               But that is the best example I can give

         2          you right now of the good idea that we hadn't

         3          thought about that was brought about by one

         4          of you concerned citizens.  So we hope to

         5          hear a bunch of those tonight.

         6               Anyway, we've worked with everybody

         7          that's been doing this for a long time to add

         8          to our -- to try to make these solid,

         9          good-working rules and regulations.

        10               Okay.  If you think I've been speaking

        11          fast now, we're about to fly through 13 pages

        12          of rules and regulations, of which I have

        13          condensed it down to an outline.  And I'm

        14          just going to hit a few points.  We can be

        15          here late.  I've got it on the computer.  We

        16          can look at it word for word.  But, anyway, I

        17          think this will suffice.

        18               A few definitions might be of interest.

        19          MMEIA, this is the Mississippi Major Economic

        20          Impact Authority.  It is a division of MDA.

        21          That is Leland Speed.  The Appropriate

        22          Supervisory Agency, ASA, DMR, or DASA.

        23               MR. HAMILTON:  What's DMR?

        24               MR. MOODY:  Department of Marine

        25          Resources.  That's a common acronym down




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         1          here.  But at any rate, the ASA probably in

         2          most of our onshore parks, will be Wildlife

         3          Fisheries and Parks.  Sometimes we run into

         4          prison systems.  We run into all sorts of

         5          things.  But they are the keepers of those

         6          grounds on which this operation would be

         7          taking place.

         8               Permit requirement, you've got to have

         9          one.  The application for it needs to know

        10          who you are, where you are, what are you

        11          going to do.  And then with that, we send it

        12          to the ASA.  And the ASA will come back with

        13          a list of the environmental concerns and

        14          issues for that particular project area.

        15               Okay.  There are filing fees and permit

        16          fees that you see up here.  Basically filing

        17          fee is $250.  And then there's a fee for so

        18          many miles for 2D seismic and 3D seismic.

        19          And there's a requirement of a performance

        20          bond by the contractor.

        21               Permit issuance and transfer, we issue

        22          this to the people that are doing work.  In

        23          other words, we're not going to -- if it was

        24          Exxon and Company X was going to be doing

        25          work for them, we're not talking to Exxon,




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         1          we're talking to Company X because we have to

         2          have a direct line of communication of the

         3          operations to make sure that if anything

         4          comes up, we are talking to the people that

         5          have got their hands on the project.

         6               You can't transfer it out without

         7          permission coming through us that so we know

         8          who we're working with.  And these -- when we

         9          issue a permit, it will be posted on our

        10          website.  There are no permits yet because we

        11          don't have rules and regs yet.  We hope we

        12          get it there Friday and will be able to open

        13          up for business in about 30 days, but that

        14          remains to be seen, but that is the idea.

        15          Once we're up and going, then this will be

        16          public information.

        17               Operations, pre-operations is basically

        18          a 10-day startup.  The ASA can say, wait a

        19          minute, we've got a particular environmental

        20          situation.  They could have -- like they have

        21          some shooting going on in Tishimingo at a

        22          time maybe when the turkey is nesting.  So we

        23          had to back off from that operation.  And the

        24          contractor just scheduled himself and then

        25          they came back when things got a little




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         1          clearer.  But those are considerations the

         2          DASA can bring to the table.

         3               Field operations, there's probably a lot

         4          of misunderstanding in this room about these

         5          field operations.  When you see 20 pounds of

         6          dynamite and some people think that we're

         7          going to go out on the islands, it was never,

         8          ever considered that anybody would be using

         9          explosives on the islands.  It wasn't even

        10          ever considered.

        11               But statewide rules and regs, dynamite

        12          is the source on the onshore, yet dynamite

        13          and vibrosize are the two technologies.  But,

        14          anyway, the only time that you would --

        15               So, anyway, what we've done is we've

        16          gone in and we've improved the safety, the

        17          depths, and the procedures for dealing with

        18          these energy sources throughout the state.

        19               Again, these are statewide rules and

        20          regs.  It's just a large framework within

        21          which we're going to be working.

        22               When they're out there, they have some

        23          equipment around.  They have labels on it so

        24          they can know who it belongs to, where it is.

        25          They've got to put it out.  They collect




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         1          their information, and then they pick up

         2          their stuff and they move on their way.

         3               They've got to follow the Coast Guard

         4          rules.  They've got to have distances away

         5          from oyster reefs, that sort of thing, except

         6          for air guns.  Again, air guns are used

         7          gulfwide, in federal waters, in all state

         8          waters.  They have been proven to be by far

         9          the best sources to compress the air.  And,

        10          therefore, you can get in closer to some

        11          things.

        12               Everything drilled onshore will be

        13          plugged according to MDEQ, Office of Land and

        14          Water rules and regs that protect fresh

        15          water.

        16               The general guidelines, again, under

        17          Section 7, basically anything that causes

        18          pollution and creates hazards, all of these

        19          sorts of things are listed out there.  And

        20          we're going to do it right.  We're going to

        21          do it right, and you, the contractor, have

        22          got to do it right.

        23               A seismic agent, I say is the state's

        24          eyes and ears.  A seismic contractor is going

        25          to be paying for this, but that person who is




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         1          working for DMR is trained to work offshore.

         2          And he is the eyes and ears to make sure that

         3          the rules and regulations and the permit and

         4          the specific requirements of the individual

         5          permit are met by these offshore operations.

         6               So he's the eyes and ears for us, and

         7          he's not going to be the only one out there

         8          in that capacity.  We're going to have a

         9          marine mammal spotter, as well.  So there's a

        10          good deal of effort going on to work in the

        11          area.  He accompanies all seismic operations

        12          and gives daily reports.  And he is empowered

        13          to stop that operation if something goes

        14          wrong.  If he sees something that's not going

        15          right, then he's going to say, stop.  And

        16          that's a very costly thing to do in a very

        17          big operation.

        18               Reporting requirements, basically 30

        19          days afterwards we've got to have a complete

        20          verification of what was done where, and if

        21          there were any damage reports, what are the

        22          litigation actions.  Obviously, when there's

        23          a lot of stuff going on, things can get

        24          broken.

        25               And one thing the industry has proven




                                                             21

         1          over time is that they're very good at fixing

         2          whatever things have come up.  They want to

         3          do that.  They want to leave no tracks

         4          behind.  There's not going to be any

         5          historical problems left behind.

         6               There's a large section in here on the

         7          marine life protection for marine resources

         8          and wildlife management.  And I just crunched

         9          it all down and said, you will work very

        10          closely with your friendly ASA.  They are the

        11          people -- Bill Walker and his staff down here

        12          and wildlife fishery.

        13               There is a lot of language in there, but

        14          basically it's to make sure that the things

        15          that you hold near and dear and why you're

        16          here tonight are well protected in these

        17          activities.

        18               The ASA can suspend operation if

        19          something were going array.  Bill Walker can

        20          say, stop.  You know, stop.  If we don't get

        21          it fixed, we're going to stop.

        22               Data access, the state will have access

        23          to the data.  There is liability coverage if

        24          these do accidentally get bumped into,

        25          knocked, broken.  We require this right from




                                                             22

         1          the beginning.  And they are responsible for

         2          damages.  Violations, they can lose their

         3          permit.  If things get not going right,

         4          forget it.  Pack it up.  Go home.  If you

         5          really insist, you might not be able to come

         6          back.

         7               So there are some teeth in here.  Some

         8          miscellaneous portions, the last part of the

         9          rule, you must obtain all other required

        10          authorizations.  Nobody is going to be run

        11          over in this process.  MMEIA and ASA can

        12          grant modifications and waivers.  Again, this

        13          is some of the flexibility that you put into

        14          something like this general framework for

        15          circumstances unforeseen at this point in

        16          time, but we might be able to accommodate.

        17          That doesn't mean they will.  They can use

        18          their good judgment and make a decision.

        19               And in the case of if things got slowed

        20          down, stopped at some unreasonable time, then

        21          the state might refund the permit fee.

        22               Let me sum up some of these points.  The

        23          rules and regulations are the larger

        24          framework.  I have alluded to that.  But,

        25          anyway, the wide variety of settings,




                                                             23

         1          circumstances and conditions of each

         2          individual permit are addressed.

         3               An example, there will be no explosives

         4          used on the park islands without a park

         5          approval.  As I said before -- Well, let me

         6          take a -- Let me take a guess at what you're

         7          laughing at because I can understand that.

         8          There is -- There is a consideration.  If

         9          you're a resource manager, if you really know

        10          what you have and where it is, that's a good

        11          tool for management.

        12               Now, the park service -- and I'm not

        13          saying they will.  We'll talk about this, and

        14          I don't expect you to go for it, but if they

        15          wanted to have a very clear picture of what's

        16          underneath those islands, then they might

        17          allow some of this activity on the island in

        18          order to get the information by which they

        19          can manage those islands for the next 50

        20          years because they will know.  And there is a

        21          good chance -- Except for Murphy's Law,

        22          there's a good chance that most of those

        23          islands are not going to have accumulations

        24          under them.

        25               If you are the resource manager and you




                                                             24

         1          have a clear picture and you know that's the

         2          case, the game's over.  I mean, as far as the

         3          park service is concerned, if there are no

         4          prospect leads underneath those islands, it's

         5          a non-issue to them as far as the island

         6          itself.  So, anyway, that remains to be seen.

         7               Okay.  Somebody said that they might be

         8          hacking through, you know, making a straight

         9          line, which industry does need in some

        10          places.  Never in our wildest dreams.  They

        11          will tiptoe through the tulips.  I told

        12          somebody I think a sea turtle is going to

        13          leave more tracks than these people do when

        14          they're done.

        15               The probable -- the probable marine

        16          seismic operations in the state will --

        17          (audience booing) -- with little or no

        18          lasting effects.  The information that they

        19          yield will have a large influence on the

        20          future.  These boats are going to be going

        21          back and forth.  They will be pulling the air

        22          guns behind them.  You're going to look on

        23          the horizon, and it's going to look like any

        24          other boat.  They're going to be there for a

        25          while, and then they're gone.  It's the




                                                             25

         1          information that they generate that will be

         2          valuable to everybody here.

         3               Okay.  The operations down here will be

         4          under DMR seismic agent.  And as I said

         5          before, we'll have a mammal observer, as

         6          well.  There will be a public hearing in

         7          Jackson.  As most of you are aware of it,

         8          it's Friday the 27th at 9:00 a.m.

         9               Statewide rules, remember the seismic

        10          maps, seismic all over the place.  It will be

        11          in the public service commission hearing room

        12          on the first floor.  The only subject that

        13          will be addressed at that hearing are seismic

        14          rules and regs.

        15               Now, we have leasing rules and regs that

        16          we're working on right now that are going to

        17          be coming right behind -- okay, right behind

        18          the seismic rules and regs.  I'm planning on

        19          having several meetings down here on the

        20          Coast in that process.

        21               So we're going to engage y'all.  It's

        22          going to be closer to what probably was your

        23          concern.  Some of you may say, well, the

        24          seismic is the camel's nose running.  I mean,

        25          that's true.  I mean, it's going to influence




                                                             26

         1          the future outlook.  But it's the placement

         2          of platforms, that type of thing, that will

         3          be addressed in the leasing rules and regs.

         4          We're getting those going now, and we will be

         5          back on the Coast, and there will be multiple

         6          meetings.  And we will be looking for your

         7          input and your ideas.  But, anyway, on Friday

         8          only seismic rules and regs will be

         9          addressed.

        10               Okay.  I'm going to stretch this a

        11          little bit because Gerald Blessey told me

        12          when we were talking on the telephone that

        13          tonight he assured me the discussions would

        14          be seismic and go on to other things, and I

        15          think I've bared enough awareness in here to

        16          know some of those things are a concern to

        17          you.  Again, we'll have an opportunity to

        18          talk about these a whole lot when we get into

        19          leasing rules and regs.

        20               Dauphin Island -- I just grabbed this

        21          off of Alabama's website -- The view of

        22          Dauphin Island has the heaviest presence of

        23          industry of any place that I've ever seen.

        24          Keep that in mind because that being true,

        25          and you can see some of it out here, tourism




                                                             27

         1          I heard that it has not gone done.  It has

         2          not.  It has not in Dauphin Island.  More

         3          people keep coming.

         4               AUDIENCE:  It has.

         5               MR. MOODY:  And they keep paying more,

         6          according to the realtors that are there and

         7          according to the mayors, the two mayors that

         8          I've talked to.  The property values continue

         9          to rise.  They have not been -- They have not

        10          been negatively impacted by drilling.  The

        11          water quality -- ADEM, which is the Alabama

        12          Department of Environmental Management, as

        13          soon as I heard -- I think it was Louis

        14          Skrmetta was talking about the water quality

        15          worries that he had.  That's a legitimate

        16          concern.  Again, I told you, if you give me a

        17          legitimate concern, we're going to want to

        18          tackle it with you.  We head over to ADM, and

        19          we say, what kind of history do you people

        20          have on your water quality?  And they've had

        21          no issues.

        22               The reason -- one of the issues is when

        23          you permit a well to be drilled in Alabama,

        24          and it will be true here in Mississippi, it's

        25          called a zero discharge permit.  No water,




                                                             28

         1          not even rain water, is allowed to come off

         2          of that platform and back into the Sound.

         3          All of it is collected on the structure and

         4          shipped to shore and disposed of onshore.  At

         5          any rate, it's disposed of in a proper way.

         6               Another concern that I've heard about is

         7          subsidence of the islands, if we end up with

         8          hydrocarbon, you know, the horizontal wells

         9          coming in underneath it.  And I think Becky

        10          put on a little disclaimer at their meeting.

        11          But the idea was that there was concerns that

        12          if we withdraw hydrocarbons, that the islands

        13          would sink.

        14               Bob Morton, I know Bob.  He's a Ph.D,

        15          coastal geologist from the University of

        16          Texas, now at USGS in St. Pete.  He is the

        17          guy, okay, the guy that you want to talk to

        18          about subsidence as a function of the

        19          extraction of hydrocarbons.  And I spent a

        20          lot of time when I heard about the issue with

        21          Bob, and our geologic setting is not going to

        22          result in that.

        23               Now, these islands are going away.

        24          They're going away right now.  The work that

        25          Steve did and Kyle did -- They're not




                                                             29

         1          evolving.  They're eroding.  And if you take

         2          the present rates of erosion, we can tell you

         3          when they're going to be gone, but it's not

         4          going to be because of hydrocarbon

         5          withdrawal.  We don't have the geologic

         6          setting for that.

         7               I'm trying to wrap up.  But basically,

         8          significant resource potential exists and

         9          awaits responsible development under

        10          reasonable regulation for the good of all the

        11          state's citizens.  It's a state resource.

        12          You saw where the seismic was.  That's where

        13          the production is, too.  MDA does plan on

        14          holding public meetings, more informational

        15          meetings when we get on to the leasing rules

        16          and regs.  I urge you if you are interested,

        17          get engaged.  We want you engaged.  We want

        18          good ideas.  We'll be writing these up pretty

        19          soon.  And we're looking for good ideas, and

        20          we hope to see you there.

        21               AUDIENCE:  (Inaudible.)

        22               MR. MOODY:  I told you I'm looking for

        23          ideas, and I really, really do appreciate

        24          that.  Senator Cochran is not in a dilemma,

        25          but he had two constituencies.  He had been a




                                                             30

         1          perfect voter for the park islands.  Of

         2          course, he's all for Mississippi, doing what

         3          he can do for Mississippi to improve the

         4          quality of life here.  He turned to his

         5          staff, and he said, look, get these two

         6          parties together, and let's work this out

         7          before they go into conference.  Now, this is

         8          when this bill was starting to make its way

         9          through.

        10               So I participated in conference calls

        11          with the national parks -- not just me.  I

        12          mean, the state had several people, but I got

        13          to listen.  And basically what we ended up

        14          with was worked out between the state and

        15          National Park Service, the park service in

        16          Washington at a policy level and above.  The

        17          Interior Department and the National Park

        18          Service were in on those negotiations.  They

        19          agreed to language that went into that

        20          legislation and what came out.

        21               So nobody got railroaded.  Nobody got

        22          steamrolled into this process.  It was talked

        23          about, worked out, and that's what went

        24          through.

        25               Okay.  Did I forget anything else?  Does




                                                             31

         1          anybody else have a good idea?  If I missed

         2          something, tell me.  Otherwise, now it's your

         3          turn.  So I will sit down.  I'm going to sit

         4          down, and Scott Hamilton is going to take

         5          care of reading out the names.  Good ideas,

         6          comments, questions.  It's your evening, and

         7          we're here to help you.  You believe that,

         8          don't you?

         9               MR. HAMILTON:  We've got two

        10          microphones, so what I'm going to do is call

        11          two people's names.  That way one person can

        12          sort of be getting ready while the other

        13          person is talking.  When one person stops,

        14          we'll call another name.  The first speaker

        15          tonight will be Reilly Morse, and the second

        16          will be Jim Fish.

        17               MR. MORSE:  Good evening.  Is this on?

        18               MR. HAMILTON:  I think it is on.  Maybe

        19          you just need to speak a little more closely.

        20               MR. MORSE:  Okay.  Good evening.  I

        21          think that the attendance here indicates to

        22          the Mississippi Coast the seriousness with

        23          which the people on the Coast here take even

        24          the prospect of seismic exploration.  And had

        25          Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Moody been so kind as to




                                                             32

         1          extend me the authority to do so, I would

         2          have shown you some of the things that they

         3          didn't give you pictures of, including things

         4          like what do these boats look like.  I could

         5          have given you some examples and some

         6          information about the extent of what this

         7          seismic is like.  How loud is it?  They have

         8          never even told you that.  What does it do to

         9          marine mammals?  What does it do to fish?

        10          What does it do to wildlife?  How far -- How

        11          big a distance do these sounds travel when

        12          they're generated in water, and how long do

        13          they go?  These are pieces of information

        14          they don't want to talk to you all about

        15          because they don't want you to be fully

        16          informed about this.  They want to tell you

        17          to just relax and do not come to Jackson.

        18               Well, I'm telling you folks one thing,

        19          if you want to keep these islands pristine,

        20          get in your car on Friday morning and get up

        21          there and show them that we don't care if you

        22          schedule something on a Friday morning right

        23          before a major holiday, we're going to tell

        24          you just what we think of you.  Y'all get up

        25          there.




                                                             33

         1               I'm going to go real quick.  Another

         2          thing which they didn't give you the benefit

         3          of is a broad array of photographs of what

         4          Dauphin Island looks like.  Those of you who

         5          have came down to Ship Island ferry and saw

         6          those photos, you would have seen a much

         7          bigger picture of what it looked like.  And

         8          it's ugly.  We don't want it, and we don't

         9          need it.

        10               I want to talk to you about these

        11          regulations themselves.  Probably the one

        12          that you -- they least want you to hear about

        13          is going to be Rule 14B, which lets them

        14          waive or modify any provision of the

        15          regulations at the discretion of the

        16          executive director and the appropriate

        17          supervising agency.

        18               Well, we have seen our appropriate

        19          supervising agency strongarmed, not just this

        20          particular agency under this particular

        21          regime, but in the past, too.  I tell you

        22          what, that's pretty cold comfort.  If they

        23          decide that they want to come on that island

        24          and do explosions, the executive director can

        25          waive that requirement.  That's the way these




                                                             34

         1          regulations are written.  Is that how y'all

         2          want it?

         3               Now let's hear a little bit more.  And

         4          unfortunately, we can't go into a lot of

         5          detail here, but one of the other things that

         6          was so fascinating was this seismic agent.

         7          Doesn't that sound reassuring?  What's this

         8          seismic agent's real authority?  Well, we're

         9          told here in this presentation that he can

        10          stop something on the spot, then and there.

        11          I would sure like to see that in black and

        12          white, which I don't believe it is in these

        13          regulations.  And if it is, then, guess what,

        14          it can get waived.  And, guess what, even if

        15          that seismic agent isn't on that vessel

        16          that's doing this stuff, the operation can go

        17          forward.

        18               So it's not required that each and every

        19          one of these processes be observed by a

        20          seismic agent.  Now, these seismic sounds are

        21          going to go five times faster, 60 times

        22          farther through water than they would through

        23          air.  Fish, wildlife, and vegetation can be

        24          killed if they're nearby, or they can be

        25          injured if they're in the zone of influence.




                                                             35

         1               We hope our appropriate supervising

         2          agency takes that into account when they

         3          start even considering whether or not to do

         4          this seismic.  Dolphins and other marine

         5          mammals are especially vulnerable.  None of

         6          these regulations that are in this set

         7          require any baseline study, any impact

         8          analysis.  And essentially, the data gets

         9          withheld.  Virtually all of the seismic data

        10          is going to get withheld from you folks.

        11               So we'll never know what they found out,

        12          what occurred, whether it was a waste of

        13          time, and what actually happened out on the

        14          scene.  These records aren't going to be

        15          available to us.  Do you want that?

        16               Now, these standards they're going to

        17          put out there are things like reasonably

        18          available, usual industry designs.  Those are

        19          too vague to be enforceable.  They need to

        20          come up with something concrete and specific.

        21          They've had the opportunity to do this.

        22          They've been at this behind the scenes for a

        23          long time.  If this is the best they can do,

        24          then tell MDA no to seismic exploration.  If

        25          they can't do any better than this, send them




                                                             36

         1          home.

         2               MR. FISH:  My name is Jim Fish.  That's

         3          a pretty hard act to follow there.  I'm a

         4          relative newcomer to the Coast.  I've lived

         5          here about a year and a half, and part of the

         6          reason I moved here was because of the

         7          pristine beaches that surround this area in

         8          Gulfport and Biloxi.

         9               I took my first trip to Dauphin Island

        10          last month, and I was appalled, to be quite

        11          honest with you.  It is probably the ugliest

        12          beach I've ever seen in my life. And if

        13          that's what Ship Island and the rest of these

        14          islands are going to look like, I won't go.

        15               MR. SHEPARD:  My name is Steve Shepard.

        16          I do have to say again, to reiterate on

        17          Dauphin Island, it is not very encouraging to

        18          have you stand there and tell us that you

        19          talked to the Alabama Department of

        20          Environmental Quality or somebody and they

        21          told you that everything is fine at Dauphin

        22          Island so you take their word for it.

        23               That seems like fairly shallow research,

        24          in my opinion, because all you have to do is

        25          go over there and look yourself.  It is an




                                                             37

         1          ugly -- I don't want to say it's totally

         2          ugly.  I even go visit it for the birds.  The

         3          birds don't particularly care about beauty.

         4               So I can still go over there and enjoy

         5          the birds fly, more or less ignore the rigs.

         6          I don't know how many birds are dying due to

         7          the rigs, but the water quality has

         8          definitely gone down.

         9               And you're not going to get an answer

        10          out of them any more than you're going to get

        11          an answer out of the DMR over here.  And that

        12          is very discouraging to me to think that the

        13          DMR is supposed to protect us, the people, or

        14          we, the people, from anything that might go

        15          wrong when the DMR recently ruled when it

        16          came to a casino being cited at the mouth of

        17          the bayou -- first of all, the DMR said, we

        18          don't want to have anything to do with that.

        19          If the gaming commission decides that's an

        20          okay place, then that's okay with us.  And

        21          guess what, we now have an inlet instead of a

        22          bayou thanks to the DMR.

        23               The DMR is weak and worthless, and we

        24          can't count on them to protect us.

        25               MR. WESTFALL:  We at the Isle are very




                                                             38

         1          much against anything that would negatively

         2          impact tourism on the Coast.  The Mississippi

         3          Gulf Coast has grown to be the third largest

         4          gaming destination in the U.S.  This growth

         5          over the last 13 years isn't by accident.

         6          This growth has been dependant on natural

         7          resources including the Gulf Island Seashore.

         8          This natural resource sets us apart from any

         9          other gaming destination in the country and

        10          makes the Coast a better place to visit.

        11               We stand with these individuals here

        12          tonight to oppose oil and gas exploration in

        13          and around the Mississippi state.

        14               MR. BARQ:  Good evening.  I'm Robert

        15          Bones Barq.  I have lived on the Coast my

        16          whole life.  I've got two things to get off

        17          my chest, and then I'm going to get started.

        18          The first thing is, I don't appreciate our

        19          U.S. Senator adding this to a defense bill

        20          without first getting the people's input here

        21          on the Gulf Coast that pays his salary.  I do

        22          not appreciate that one bit.

        23               The second thing I don't appreciate is

        24          the Board of Supervisors having to call this

        25          meeting tonight --




                                                             39

         1               AUDIENCE:  Thank you.

         2               MR. BARQ:  -- about something in my

         3          backyard that y'all did not have the courtesy

         4          to come and tell me what is going to happen

         5          and impact me in my backyard.  Without Connie

         6          Rocko and the Board of Supervisors, we

         7          probably wouldn't be having this meeting

         8          tonight, and I want to thank them.

         9               I've grown up on this Coast.  I've seen

        10          the '50s, '60s, and '70s.  The '80s were

        11          hell.  It was so bad, the town hooker was on

        12          food stamps, but I'm not going to go there.

        13          Let me just tell you, this Coast is thriving.

        14          You know how come it's thriving, because

        15          everybody in this room made it happen.  You

        16          might have some people in here against

        17          gaming, but without gaming and without

        18          tourism, we was in Chapter 11 heading for 7,

        19          and it took 7/11 to save us.

        20               Now, I'm not against drilling.  I'm not

        21          against the oil rigs, but they are ugly.

        22          They're very ugly.  What I suggest is if

        23          you're looking for ideas, why don't we use

        24          the idea that Jeb Bush did in Florida?  Buy

        25          up the oil and mineral rights.  Move it




                                                             40

         1          24 miles out, and have all the fun you want

         2          to have; or better yet, when you're talking

         3          about having this meeting in Jackson, which

         4          is fine -- that's okay.  But you're mixing

         5          apples and oranges when you've got maybe

         6          cotton fields or rural areas that maybe need

         7          this and won't affect them.  We don't want

         8          this on our Gulf Coast.  We don't want to

         9          look at these platforms.

        10               There is a time when you go out to Ship

        11          Island and you go to Horn Island or Ship

        12          Island.  That's called beauty.  And there's a

        13          time that you need to sit back, relax, and

        14          let nature and what God gave us take its own

        15          course.

        16               So we voted on gaming.  We voted on

        17          dockside.  We voted on the Mississippi Coast

        18          Coliseum expansion.  We voted on the flag

        19          issue.  Put it on the ballot.

        20               Thank you.

        21               MS. WALDORF:  I'm Elizabeth Waldorf

        22          Dove.  I'm a retired community college

        23          environmental science instructor.  Excuse me.

        24          I want to look at the big picture for just a

        25          moment, please, just to make a couple of




                                                             41

         1          comments.

         2               First, if you're a reader, like I am,

         3          let me recommend to you a book by Tom

         4          Hartman.  It's called The Last Hours of

         5          Ancient Sunlight.  This covers fossil fuels.

         6          Tom Hartman, who has studied extensively,

         7          recognizes that our fossil fuels will be

         8          depleted by 2035.  Thirty years from now,

         9          there will be essentially no oil, no natural

        10          gas.

        11               The smart move, the wise move, and

        12          looking at the big picture that we should

        13          take now is to start finding alternatives

        14          to -- (inaudible).  If we're wise, that's

        15          what we're going to do, folks.

        16               The second point, please.  You can use

        17          fossil fuels in two ways.  You can use them

        18          as raw materials.  You can use them as fuel.

        19          They are precious as raw materials because of

        20          all of the polymers we make from fossil

        21          fuels.  By conserving them, we can make

        22          plastics.  We can make advanced polymers in

        23          the future, or your grandchildren can.  That

        24          would be the smarter move.

        25               And, thirdly, in August of this last




                                                             42

         1          year, there was an article in Science

         2          Magazine, a highly respected magazine, that

         3          explored the economics of wind power.  It

         4          turns out the states of South Dakota and

         5          Texas that if it were utilized, they could

         6          produce the electric power for the entire

         7          U.S.

         8               Now, if you do the economics of it, it

         9          turns out that if you take into account the

        10          cost in health issues of the soot and the

        11          consequence of coal burning and the mercury

        12          that's releasing, if you take into account

        13          the economics of coal burning, it turns out

        14          that now it is cheaper to make wind-powered

        15          electricity than coil-powered electricity.

        16               Thank you, folks.

        17               MS. DUGGER:  How do you do?  My name is

        18          Aimee Gautier Dugger, and I am a native and

        19          my family for the last several hundred years.

        20          Our family has packed shrimp, has sold for

        21          generations.  I don't see my brothers here

        22          from the ice plant in Pascagoula, but I will

        23          say this:  It means so much to the fishing

        24          industry, as well.  I'm sure there are

        25          fishermen who love to go to rigs to fish, but




                                                             43

         1          the impact of this is going to impact the

         2          seafood industry who was here long before

         3          many other industries, one.

         4               Two, John Anderson, who is in this

         5          audience, and when we were 25 years old and

         6          others who are here, we stood up against the

         7          entire parks service and went to hearings

         8          from New Orleans to Pensacola 30 years ago.

         9          We were lied to.  We were bamboozled, you

        10          know, they thought.  Let me say how hard this

        11          Coast worked to preserve our beloved Horn

        12          Island as a wilderness area.  We had to fight

        13          the park service.  Thank God that we could

        14          convince Bill Calmer that we needed a

        15          wilderness and not Coney Island here on the

        16          Gulf Coast.  That's my second point.

        17               Thirdly, we don't have to keep whipping

        18          that dead horse about Dauphin Island, but, of

        19          course, people will go buy property on

        20          Dauphin Island.  They will go to a ditch and

        21          call it waterfront nowadays.  Not everybody

        22          is as fortunate as I am to live on a house

        23          that's 130 years old on a 26-foot elevation,

        24          but we old-timers know about elevation and

        25          what happens in hurricanes and floods and




                                                             44

         1          tidewaters.

         2               And we have to pay taxes.  We're sick of

         3          the EPA calling everybody out and everybody

         4          whining about, oh, I lost everything.  Tough,

         5          you know.  Go higher, or go on pilings.

         6               Thirdly, let me see.  I am not a

         7          professional scientist.  I'm an artist.  I'm

         8          a painter, or I used to be.  I was an art

         9          historian.  Now I'm just a complainer.  I'm a

        10          57-year-old complainer, and I'm not going to

        11          give up.

        12               This has really brought the fight to me,

        13          but my husband, David Dugger, stood up and

        14          fought OSCO/Laidlaw.  And if you don't think

        15          that this is development -- We're not

        16          about -- The MDA, they're not about

        17          protecting our rights.  They are about

        18          economic development.  Hello.  The two are

        19          not necessarily compatible.

        20               My grandfather, Ernest Gautier, helped

        21          bring the shipyard to Pascagoula.  I have had

        22          to look at the shipyard my whole life.  I

        23          have had to hear the shipyard my whole life.

        24          Yes, it's the sound of money, okay, but this

        25          is disgusting.  And every artist in this




                                                             45

         1          audience needs to stand up and holler against

         2          this.

         3               You haven't seen the people who are

         4          lining the street and the parking lot and the

         5          cars and people who want to get in through

         6          that door.  Dr. Walker doesn't want to let

         7          people in because she can't.  The fire

         8          people -- the fire department would get her,

         9          but you should see the people out there in

        10          support of the public.

        11               MR. LESTER:  Yeah.  My name is Jim

        12          Lester.  I'm not a professional speaker, but

        13          I would like to read to you an article that I

        14          sent in to the Sun Herald, and they kindly

        15          printed it.  You may have already seen it.

        16               Drilling in the morning, drilling in the

        17          evening, drilling the livelong day.  Will

        18          this little jingle become popular along the

        19          Gulf Coast after we slam drill into the

        20          barrier islands in the unfortunately not too

        21          distant future?  Does anyone really believe

        22          that the small amount of oil found there is

        23          going to even slightly lower gas prices?  Do

        24          you think it's going to be worth it, yes or

        25          no?




                                                             46

         1               AUDIENCE:  No.

         2               MR. LESTER:  Glad to hear it.  Does

         3          anyone truly believe that the oil companies,

         4          such as Exxon, which this past quarter

         5          enjoyed a 44 percent -- 44 percent increase

         6          in their profit margin over last year are

         7          going to shamefacedly lower their

         8          unconscionably high prices to help Americans?

         9          Do you think they're going to do that, folks?

        10               AUDIENCE:  No.

        11               MR. LESTER:  Does anyone honestly

        12          believe that Bush is going to arm twist our

        13          great Arab allies in the war against

        14          terrorism into increasing their oil

        15          production?

        16               AUDIENCE:  No.

        17               MR. LESTER:  Right.  Both Bush and

        18          Cheney are oil men, folks.  They're not going

        19          to help us a bit.  Your state government

        20          won't help you, won't help stop the proposed

        21          pillaging of the Gulf.  They just awarded the

        22          parceling out of drilling rights to the

        23          Mississippi MDA.  That's called putting the

        24          fox in charge of the hen house.

        25               But there are things you can do if you




                                                             47

         1          want to stop this, and this is probably a

         2          little late now.  Sign petitions which are

         3          being circulated to stop drilling in the Gulf

         4          and write to these individuals who have some

         5          clout.  And I've got Senator Cochran and

         6          Leland Speed, Executive Director of MDA.

         7               Thank you.

         8               MS. LEBOW:  Can you hear me?

         9               AUDIENCE:  Yes.

        10               MS. LEBOW:  I'm Dr. Jeanne Lebow.  A

        11          number of you know me from being on the

        12          Coast, living on the Coast.  I'm back this

        13          summer.  I teach at the Mississippi School of

        14          Arts in Brookhaven.  I'm a teaching artist,

        15          vocal, visual, and theater artist.  And, of

        16          course, the islands are one of our artistic

        17          wonders.  They're also one of our scientific

        18          wonders.

        19               Everything that's been said about the

        20          seismic problems with mammals is obviously a

        21          real problem.  Everything that's been said

        22          about Dauphin Island's water quality -- if we

        23          would want to use the word "quality" behind

        24          that, is true.  How many of you want water

        25          quality like Dauphin Island?




                                                             48

         1               AUDIENCE:  No.

         2               MS. LEBOW:  The waivers clause was on

         3          the board for you to see.  Every single point

         4          he put on the board, they can waive.  Is that

         5          your idea of best management practice?

         6               AUDIENCE:  No.

         7               MS. LEBOW:  I have fought for the

         8          environment for a long time.  I am really

         9          tired of money going to upper management and

        10          to major profits in places like Chevron and

        11          Exxon and no money going to best management

        12          practices.

        13               Do you like that?

        14               AUDIENCE:  No.

        15               MS. LEBOW:  Would you rather see some

        16          best management practices?  As far as I'm

        17          concerned, they can do their best management

        18          practices in another state.

        19               A couple of other things I do want to

        20          mention, the DEQ and the DMR, obviously foxes

        21          guarding the hen house.  We know it.  We also

        22          know that there are seismic studies that have

        23          been done of this whole area.  We don't have

        24          to have our rangers approve for us to have a

        25          seismic study of the island when there's been




                                                             49

         1          a seismic study for years of the natural gas

         2          out there.  Why else would they be looking?

         3               So I just want to thank those in

         4          particular who helped make this meeting

         5          possible because without them, they probably

         6          would be trying another end run around us.

         7               And there will be a lot of people going

         8          to Jackson.  And I hope that many of you will

         9          and stand up for the fact that we don't have

        10          to have drilling.  Stand up for it.

        11               Thank you very much.

        12               MS. COLLINS:  My name is Terese Collins,

        13          and I represent Gulf Islands Conservancy and

        14          my family tonight.  I think I'd like to ask

        15          one question.  How many of you are for

        16          seismic exploration down here?

        17               AUDIENCE:  Right here.

        18               MS. COLLINS:  How many people are

        19          against it?

        20               AUDIENCE:  (Crowd applauding.)

        21               MS. COLLINS:  This is a public resource

        22          for public purposes that we're talking about,

        23          not private lands.  And I think that's an

        24          important consideration.  I don't think that

        25          the work has been done to verify the economic




                                                             50

         1          impacts that we're looking at.  It doesn't

         2          balance out.

         3               MR. MORSE:  Terese, how many hands did

         4          you see for it?  Say it in the record.

         5               MS. COLLINS:  How many are here for it?

         6          One, two, three, four, five, six, seven,

         7          eight.

         8               How many people can make it to Jackson

         9          on Friday morning?  How many people want a

        10          public hearing here, an official public

        11          hearing?

        12               AUDIENCE:  (Crowd applauding.)

        13               MS. LEBOW:  You represent us.  We pay

        14          your salary.  We want to be represented.  We

        15          had to get the county to pay for the court

        16          reporter.  We would have paid for it, but we

        17          couldn't.  We could not get you to do it.

        18          This is not an official meeting, people.

        19          This meeting means absolutely nothing if we

        20          don't have it in the record.  You've got to

        21          understand that.

        22               This is a game.  They've shown us a

        23          slide show.  The regulations are extremely

        24          vague.  And giving us 30 days -- They're

        25          going to propose on Friday, and then we have




                                                             51

         1          30 days.  Do you see how complicated this

         2          stuff is?

         3               If you're not in the industry, you can't

         4          understand it.  If we're going to allow this

         5          to happen -- this is a runaway train right

         6          now.  If you're going to allow it to happen,

         7          let's get these regulations written in stone.

         8          Let's see what they are.  Let's protect our

         9          resources, see where the money is going to go

        10          and how it's going to be spent.

        11               We had the Mississippi miracle, and we

        12          still can't fund our schools.  We have sewage

        13          treatment plants that are still secondary

        14          treatment plants, and we have all kind of

        15          viruses and medications and things going into

        16          our waters now that are affecting the fish

        17          and the environment.  And they're telling us

        18          that these people are supposed to protect us

        19          from that type of stuff.  DMR and DEQ are

        20          going to protect us from seismic exploration

        21          and oil and gas drilling.  I don't believe

        22          it.  It isn't happening now.  It's not going

        23          to happen in the future.

        24               We want an official public hearing down

        25          here.  We want to know what else we can do to




                                                             52

         1          get the information about these regulations

         2          so we can make real comments.  We're just

         3          shooting in the dark right now.  You went

         4          through them so fast, there's no way to make

         5          that comment right now.

         6               The islands are a significant piece of

         7          the economy of Mississippi.  What is that

         8          value?  We have not seen that cost/benefit

         9          analysis done by MDA.  And I think we need to

        10          see it before we allow this action to happen

        11          because it may not be worth giving up the

        12          resource for the little bit of benefits that

        13          we're going to gain.

        14               What we really want and GIC is asking

        15          and many other people have asked is that we

        16          have mineral rights purchased by the federal

        17          government so the state can get their money.

        18          We can get this monkey off our back, we can

        19          protect our islands and our Sound, our

        20          fisheries resources, our scenic qualities,

        21          all the other things.  I mean, there's a list

        22          a mile long.  I could go on forever.  We do

        23          this all the time.

        24               Thirty days is not enough.  We want a

        25          longer period of time to comment on the




                                                             53

         1          seismic drilling, seismic exploration

         2          regulation because you're changing them as we

         3          speak.

         4               I mean, why are we -- why do we have to

         5          have this meeting?  Why didn't y'all come

         6          down here before we had to ask for it?  Why

         7          are we not having a public hearing down here?

         8          So what if Jackson is one of the sites.  Why

         9          can't you have more than one meeting?

        10               AUDIENCE:  It's a railroad.

        11               MS. COLLINS:  The truth has been left

        12          out.  You're seeing some of the things.  And

        13          I work for DMR.  I work for the City of

        14          Biloxi.  I've met with MMA when they had the

        15          middle management, the federal government

        16          armed this when they had a seismic

        17          exploration testing stuff in federal waters.

        18          I met with them as an official and as a

        19          citizen.

        20               And this is a very complicated issue,

        21          people.  We don't just let it go because

        22          somebody told us it's safe to do it.  We're

        23          not being protected.  We're not being

        24          represented.  Where is my representative?

        25          Where is Tommy Gollott?  Where is Pat




                                                             54

         1          Anderson?  Where are your representatives?

         2               And if those people are in Jackson at a

         3          special session, why aren't they making their

         4          views known?  Where do they stand?  We don't

         5          know that.  Where does your mayor stand?

         6          Where do your aldermen stand?  Where do all

         7          of these people stand, and how did Thad

         8          Cochran get railroaded into this without

         9          knowing the truth about it?  Now he doesn't

        10          even know how to get out of it.  Come on,

        11          folks.

        12               What do you want Mississippi to be like?

        13          What do you want the Coast to be like in the

        14          next five, ten, fifteen and twenty years?

        15          Where do we want to be?  How much is money

        16          really worth to you?  How much is your

        17          quality of life worth to you?

        18               If you don't stand up -- And it's not

        19          just this issue.  It's every issue across the

        20          Coast.  If you don't stand up now, when are

        21          you going to stand up, and when are you going

        22          to get the rest of the Coast behind you.

        23               I hate talking in public.  I used to be

        24          scared to death, but I decided that -- you

        25          can't tell now, can you?  I decided a long




                                                             55

         1          time ago that if you don't stand up, nobody

         2          else is going to stand up with you.  And if

         3          you're not a leader, no one is going to

         4          follow.

         5               This is not easy to do.  I could lose a

         6          lot of money standing here talking to you

         7          about this stuff because I won't get money

         8          from the state.  I work for a living.  I have

         9          two businesses.  My husband is a general

        10          contractor.  We get paid by the people we're

        11          talking against.  What do you think this is

        12          going to do to us?

        13               Stand up people.  Call your relatives.

        14          Call anyone you need to.  These resources are

        15          too valuable to gamble with.  Don't let it

        16          happen.

        17               AUDIENCE:  Stand up.  Stand up.  Stand

        18          up.  Stand up.

        19               MS. COLLINS:  What I would like to

        20          know -- I'm Catholic.  What if I was Baptist.

        21          I could really go on.  I'm going to leave so

        22          that somebody else can take the room, but,

        23          please, don't railroad us.  We're not stupid.

        24          We're just people.  We're citizens.  We pay

        25          the bills.  We're small businesses.  We don't




                                                             56

         1          want to give up what we worked so hard for.

         2               All of these name droppings you did, Mr.

         3          Moody, I know all these names, and they've

         4          all been paid by the government, you know.

         5          This is ridiculous.  And Gail and, you know,

         6          you dropped the DEQ commissioners like

         7          they're good ole buddies.  So what.  Henry --

         8          you know, y'all have been on both sides of

         9          the table.  That's not the way to do this

        10          job.  Do it right.  Get the regulations

        11          either really defined or quit playing a game.

        12               Thank you.

        13               AUDIENCE:  Can we get a map of how to

        14          get to that hearing?  Where can we get the

        15          map on how to get to the hearing?

        16               MR. MOODY:  It's on the website.

        17               AUDIENCE:  He said it's in Jackson.

        18          Where?

        19               MR. HAMILTON:  Afterwards, if you'd

        20          like, I'll give you the address.  It's 500

        21          Northwest Street.

        22               AUDIENCE:  (Inaudible.)

        23               MR. HAMILTON:  Well, I don't have a map

        24          with me, ma'am.  I'm sorry I didn't bring

        25          one.




                                                             57

         1               AUDIENCE:  Well, maybe it will be in the

         2          newspaper tomorrow.

         3               MR. WEAVER:  Yes.  My name is Tom

         4          Weaver.  My wife and I are old time residents

         5          of Ocean Springs, Mississippi.  We grew up as

         6          children on up to adulthood there.  I retired

         7          from the oil fields as a directional driller.

         8          I was out there as a directional driller for

         9          18 years.

        10               I've seen the good, the bad, and the

        11          ugly of all the aspects of working in the oil

        12          fields, gas fields, both horizontal drilling,

        13          directional drilling, conventional drilling,

        14          on up to this.  And Senator Cochran -- I

        15          could speak, by the way, for hours on end

        16          about all aspects from seismic up to

        17          production, drilling included, of the oil

        18          fields and the gas field practices.

        19               Senator Cochran gave the state the

        20          unique ability now to protect the fragile

        21          environment of the islands that we so dearly

        22          cherish.  It is up to you.  You men have been

        23          charged with that responsibility now to

        24          protect the things that we cherish most out

        25          here, the environment in which we live.




                                                             58

         1               You are responsible for directing this

         2          fiscally and environmentally.  And to date

         3          I've seen none of this happen.  If the state

         4          is in such good shape production wise, and it

         5          is, actually, very good.  I've drilled many,

         6          many wells in the state of Mississippi.  I

         7          was off for a welder yesterday in Pearl River

         8          County as being the directional consultant.

         9               The state is doing very well in gas and

        10          oil production.  This fragile environment out

        11          here in the islands, they are dynamic.  They

        12          are fluid.  They are ever moving.  You have

        13          the ability to -- and the charge and the

        14          responsibility to protect them always for

        15          yourselves, for me, and for all of us, for

        16          your grandchildren, for my grandchildren, and

        17          all the grandchildren of everybody that's

        18          represented here.

        19               It is those islands that we hold

        20          cherished and we hold dear.  Our society as a

        21          whole will collapse if we completely

        22          disregard our environment.  And it's very,

        23          very, very important.  It's very important to

        24          protect the fragility of these islands.

        25          They're fluid.  They're dynamic.  We all know




                                                             59

         1          that.

         2               There is no reason to have the slightest

         3          outside influence on this wilderness area to

         4          occur, none whatsoever.  You are the men --

         5          you are the men that can do it.  If you have

         6          the oomph to stand up and do it and protect

         7          this little bit of islands out here.

         8               Off the Coast on the other side of the

         9          Mississippi River, Timbalier Bay used to have

        10          a set of barrier islands off of it.  They're

        11          no longer there.  And that's all I have to

        12          say, and thank you.  You are in charge of it.

        13          You have been put in that position to be able

        14          to do it, so do it.  Thank you.

        15               MR. CREEL:  Thank you for the

        16          opportunity to speak tonight.  I ask that my

        17          statement be entered into the minutes of the

        18          meeting and become part of the public record.

        19               MR. HAMILTON:  You might want to state

        20          your name?

        21               I'm going to.

        22               MR. HAMILTON:  I'm sorry.

        23               MR. CREEL:  My name is Cecil Creel, Jr.

        24          I'm a lifelong resident of the Gulf Coast.  I

        25          presently live in Ocean Springs.  I come




                                                             60

         1          before you tonight to speak in defense of our

         2          precious barrier islands.  They stand in mute

         3          testimony to God's handiwork.  They provide

         4          an invaluable protection to our heavily

         5          populated coastline, habitat for many

         6          protected species of wildlife.  And the

         7          shallows around their shores are a breeding

         8          ground and an incubator for our marine

         9          fisheries.

        10               They have survived countless natural

        11          disasters, some hurricanes, fire caused by

        12          lightening strikes, the natural process --

        13          the natural process of erosion.  The fear

        14          they may not survive the possibility of a

        15          man-made disaster that looms not over the

        16          horizon but by legislation that lurks merely

        17          one mile away.

        18               A lot of the science we have seen early

        19          on when our present governor removed

        20          oversight of the drilling and exploration and

        21          development of natural resources through the

        22          Department of Environmental Quality and

        23          placed such matters into the hands of the

        24          Mississippi Development Authority.

        25               I ask you, where was your coastal




                                                             61

         1          delegation while this was going on?  Only one

         2          coastal legislator raised their concerns.

         3          State Representative Dianne Peranich stood

         4          and asked why, why.  Only her voice was

         5          raised.  She understands how an environmental

         6          disaster would devastate a multi-billion

         7          dollar tourist industry.  Still she could not

         8          motivate a sheepish coastal delegation and

         9          had to look to legislators far north of I-10

        10          for support.

        11               I thank Representative Peranich for her

        12          continued commitment to the environment, our

        13          tourism industry, and the people of South

        14          Mississippi.  I also thank the Harrison

        15          County Board of Supervisors.  Without their

        16          continued pressure, this hearing would have

        17          been held in Jackson, Mississippi, in the

        18          middle of the week.  And probably not many of

        19          us would have been able to attend and

        20          certainly not be heard.

        21               I wonder how many of the movers and

        22          shakers behind this push to exploit our

        23          coastal waters and precious islands have ever

        24          set one foot on them, one toe.  Have they

        25          ever seen a sunrise over the dunes on a cool




                                                             62

         1          autumn morning as the white pelicans glided

         2          northerly above the gently lapping waves of

         3          the northern shoreline?  I wonder have they

         4          ever faced the strong southern breezes, foamy

         5          breakers crashing on the south side of the

         6          roll stretched toward an unbroken horizon

         7          with scuttling gray clouds?

         8               Have they ever watched the bright orange

         9          ball that is our sun sink silently into the

        10          western horizon at twilight as quietly as the

        11          spirit in the night?  Probably not.

        12               Well, I have, and I'm not willing to

        13          trade that piece of solitude for any price.

        14          What's the rush?  What's the rush?  Why the

        15          big push now to open these shallows to

        16          exploitation?

        17               At the present time we have 1,388 oil

        18          wells and 1,200 -- excuse me -- 1,027 gas

        19          wells in production in this state at this

        20          time.  And figures provided to me by the

        21          Mississippi Oil and Gas port indicate there

        22          are 1,499 oil wells and 303 gas wells that

        23          are capped and not in production at this

        24          time.

        25               I say open these capped wells.  Tap the




                                                             63

         1          resources before any seismic drilling begins

         2          offshore.  And if you won't do that -- if you

         3          won't do that, at least bargain with the

         4          federal government to get us as sweet a deal

         5          as Jeb Bush got for the state of Florida.

         6          They said no way, not off our Coast, and what

         7          did Jeb do but go to his brother and get

         8          those leases picked up.  But what are we

         9          doing?  You're here to help, and that scares

        10          me.

        11               In May 2005, Senator Cochran placed a

        12          bill before Congress entitled the Gulf

        13          Islands National Seashore Provisions, Section

        14          6033.  Of that bill, when coupled with HR418,

        15          the real idea, both contained in the same

        16          document, they virtually instruct the

        17          Department of the Interior to ignore all

        18          important environmental requirements -- these

        19          are not my words -- to include the Marine

        20          Mammal Protection Act, the National

        21          Environmental Policy Act, and the Endangered

        22          Species Act.

        23               The outrage the insertion of Section

        24          6033 into this bill is adding is wrapped in

        25          the bloody flag of September the 11th.  You




                                                             64

         1          see this piece of legislation that's

         2          contained in a bill entitled Emergency

         3          Supplemental Appropriation Act for Defense,

         4          The Global War on Terror, and Tsunami Relief,

         5          also known as HR1268.

         6               When homeland security projects are

         7          involved, automatically all environmental

         8          regulations and concerns are waived.  This is

         9          an outrage.  This is (inaudible) the precious

        10          memories of the nearly 3000 people murdered

        11          on September the 11th, not to mention the men

        12          and women who continue to sacrifice and die

        13          today in the hot sands of Iraq and the

        14          mountains of Afghanistan.

        15               To tie their service, their sacrifice,

        16          and the broken hearts and empty lines with

        17          their survivors at home with the exploitation

        18          of our homeland is beyond the (inaudible).  I

        19          say, shame on you.

        20               AUDIENCE:  Shame.

        21               Mark my words.  If this desecration of

        22          our precious barrier islands is allowed to

        23          proceed, history will judge you harshly.

        24          Thank you.

        25               Here we are again.  We've been here




                                                             65

         1          before.  I've been listening to the people

         2          that have talked, and I have been very

         3          impressed.  I'm just proud to be here with

         4          you.  We may not accomplish very much with

         5          this pseudo hearing, but if you will look

         6          around you, you will be proud.  And that's

         7          accomplishment.  Thank you.

         8               I'm going to be very, very short.  I'm

         9          just going to speak very briefly for my

        10          father in his words because I really doubt

        11          that anyone has ever loved Horn Island as

        12          much as he loved Horn Island.  One of the

        13          things that he wrote in his logs and notes

        14          from his unusual perspective, the unique

        15          perspective of Horn Island was that in order

        16          to realize the beauty of man, we must realize

        17          his relation to nature.

        18               There are, I believe, very few places

        19          from which we can truly realize man's

        20          relation to nature.  Horn Island is one of

        21          those places.  And I do not feel that putting

        22          oil rigs right off the beach at Horn Island

        23          is going to increase its value as a place

        24          from which we can realize the beauty of

        25          humanity.




                                                             66

         1               I would like to reiterate what one of

         2          the speakers already said about the long-term

         3          view.  The oil and gas under the public lands

         4          of Mississippi is going to increase in value.

         5          Everybody knows that.  There's no question

         6          about that.  It doesn't have to be taken out

         7          right now, and there will be in the future

         8          better, less invasive ways to do that.

         9               This is not a reasonable thing to do.

        10          It's not the logical thing to do.  It's not a

        11          good thing to do.  And I believe that the

        12          speakers that have already talked have hit

        13          the nail on the head when they said, we are

        14          not being well represented by our

        15          representatives.

        16               Thank you very much.  I'm very proud to

        17          be here with you.

        18               MR. HIGHTOWER:  My name is Bill

        19          Hightower, and I am a new resident of

        20          Mississippi.  And I retired about two years

        21          ago and bought a piece of property on the

        22          beachfront in Waveland where I am in the

        23          process of building a new house.

        24               You look at their chart.  Those Waveland

        25          blocks are pretty close to the beach.  So




                                                             67

         1          other than some other reasons I'm going to

         2          give you, one of the reasons why I don't want

         3          drilling and production out there is because

         4          when I'm sitting on my new front porch having

         5          my cocktail and they're shooting off a flare

         6          offshore and there's gas up in the air about

         7          100 yards, it's just -- it's just not much

         8          fun.

         9               I would also like to give you a little

        10          perspective on someone that has had an

        11          offshore career for 30 years.  I am a retired

        12          executive of Tidewater Marine based in New

        13          Orleans, Louisiana.  Tidewater is the largest

        14          marine support company in the world that

        15          provides all of the boats, tugs, barges, crew

        16          boats, everything that is used to transport

        17          supplies and the people to the offshore oil

        18          fields.

        19               I have lived and worked essentially

        20          everywhere offshore in the world.  There is

        21          nothing pretty or nice or well done about

        22          offshore oil and gas explorations.  These

        23          gentlemen can be very well intentioned and

        24          tell you about all the safeguards that

        25          they're going to build into their regs,




                                                             68

         1          whether they're seismic or other rigs, but

         2          they cannot prevent an accident no matter

         3          what.

         4               AUDIENCE:  Or terrorists.

         5               Now, if you want to get some enlightened

         6          people who can tell you about their

         7          experience, my suggestion -- I've been

         8          involved in all of these.  Get some people

         9          from the 1969 Santa Barbara spill offshore

        10          California, and go out there and make a

        11          presentation to them about what you can do

        12          technologically to prevent any problems.

        13               Talk to the people offshore Alaska who

        14          experienced the Exxon Valdez spill in the

        15          '90s.  We were involved in a horrible

        16          accident in the North Sea which I don't even

        17          know got much press over here.  A production

        18          platform exploded off of Aberdeen Piper Alpha

        19          and killed 2- or 300 people.  Go to Aberdeen,

        20          Scotland, and talk to those people about how

        21          safe you're going to be.

        22               We were involved with a production

        23          platform in Brazil that caught on fire and

        24          killed a bunch of people and sank.  Go down

        25          there to Rio de Janeiro and visit with those




                                                             69

         1          folks.

         2               And the last one -- and I could go on

         3          and on -- but the Amoco Cadiz off the coast

         4          of Spain, the big tanker, horrible, horrible

         5          accident that spilt billions of barrels of

         6          gallons of oil on that Coast.  Go over there

         7          to Normandy and talk to those Frenchmen about

         8          drilling over there today, and see what kind

         9          of meeting you have.

        10               My point is that you can do everything

        11          in the world today with all of the new

        12          technology and be as safe as you can possibly

        13          be, but you can never avoid the potential for

        14          a bad accident.

        15               The other thing I'd just like to run

        16          through quickly is the kinds -- the different

        17          kinds of pollution.  We haven't talked about

        18          all the different kinds of pollution.  One is

        19          view pollution.  And I suspect you talked

        20          to -- I mean, how would you like to be at

        21          Beau Rivage up there having a cocktail in the

        22          evening and look out there and see a drilling

        23          rig doing something making a lot of noise or

        24          just the lights, just the lights?

        25               The Dauphin Island people, talk to them




                                                             70

         1          about the lights.  It looks like a city out

         2          there.  This gentleman mentioned about

         3          drilling pollution, that they are going to

         4          use the technique called zero-discharge that

         5          you collect everything while you're drilling

         6          at the rig and take it to town.

         7               Well, what happens if you spill that?

         8          That's pollution.  Now, that's not the bad

         9          pollution where you have a drilling blow up,

        10          a production leak, or whatever where you get

        11          a lot of oil, but that's still pollution.

        12          You get a lot of traffic pollution.  All of

        13          these drilling rigs have to be moved around.

        14          You've got tugs.  You've got construction

        15          equipment to build platforms.

        16               Where are they going to work from?

        17          They're not going to work from Bay St. Louis.

        18          I don't know if y'all want them working out

        19          of Back Bay Biloxi.  Somewhere in Louisiana

        20          and somewhere in Alabama I imagine is going

        21          to be your answer.

        22               And I guess the last thing, I'm a

        23          sailor.  And the last thing they talk about

        24          is the noise and pollution there at Dauphin

        25          Island.  If you've ever anchored on the north




                                                             71

         1          side of Dauphin by those platforms, at night

         2          every 30 seconds a beep is going off.  You

         3          can't sleep.  That's pollution.

         4               I guess I would like to close by saying

         5          that the purpose of this meeting was just

         6          seismic graphs, but, folks, you've got to

         7          stop it now because if they get seismic

         8          going, then they're going to say, we have to

         9          drill one well.  The best seismic regs in the

        10          world are no seismic allowed in Mississippi,

        11          period.

        12               Good evening.  Thank you for allowing me

        13          to speak.  I wear a few hats in my duties

        14          around Mississippi.  I'm not from here.  I'm

        15          from another western state, but I fell in

        16          love with the place for what it has, the

        17          people, and what I see offshore.  And,

        18          believe me, I'm offshore many, many days out

        19          of the year with one of my jobs.

        20               But I'm here on the tourism side.  The

        21          people are coming here for gambling, but

        22          they're also coming for all these 40 and 50

        23          plus small businesses that are here to show

        24          and do things for these other people that are

        25          not the gamblers, the charter boats, Wolf




                                                             72

         1          River, Ship Island.

         2               We take -- Many, many artist groups go

         3          to Horn Island.  You tried a rig inside by

         4          Long Beach.  Yes, it was monitored because I

         5          know.  I was the boat that went out there

         6          every week, and we checked the pollution.

         7          What happened?  No gas.  Now, how come all of

         8          a sudden we have gas?  I know they had to do

         9          seismic testing then, but it was under a

        10          different organization at that time.

        11               What about the rig just outside of Ship

        12          Island?  How many people were there?  It's

        13          not there.  Why?  They didn't find anything.

        14          Now all of a sudden we have a big push to do

        15          it, check it close to the island, get it

        16          within that mile of the beach.  And as this

        17          last gentleman said, that noise pollution is

        18          terrible.  I've spent many hours at night

        19          with customers hearing that horn blowing.

        20               I'm representing the Mississippi Coast

        21          Attractions.  At one of the meetings I was at

        22          last month in Florida, the first thing out of

        23          the man's mouth was, we're here to protect

        24          the resource of the American public.  He said

        25          that within 20 years 75 percent of the




                                                             73

         1          American population will live within 50 miles

         2          of the Coast.  And best believe a big

         3          majority of that is going to be coming to

         4          Mississippi.  They like water.

         5               We have a beautiful place.  Let's not

         6          ruin it.  Let's leave it as it is.  Think

         7          about what you're doing, asking to do.  Let's

         8          leave it alone.  Let's let these people come

         9          down here and see what we have.  They're

        10          coming down for the people -- the warmth of

        11          the people.  They're coming down for the

        12          beauty.

        13               Closing, I'm on a Gulf of Mexico

        14          security committee with homeland security.

        15          One of my jobs is sitting in meetings with

        16          all the major players from the oil companies,

        17          Tidewater, helicopters, the CIA, Coast Guard.

        18          I'm representing the fishermen in the Gulf of

        19          Mexico.

        20               This was a comment made at our last

        21          meeting by a major (inaudible) in one of the

        22          major oil companies in the country.  This is

        23          quote, We have to wean the American public of

        24          these low fuel prices.  Thank you.

        25               MR. PORTAS:  My name is Arthur Portas.




                                                             74

         1          I'm 47 years old, and I live in Gautier,

         2          Mississippi.  My family has roots in this

         3          area since the Cuban (inaudible).  I've been

         4          here a long time.  I plan to stay here for

         5          the rest of my life.  My child is going to

         6          grow up here.  I'm a local.

         7               This meeting is about rules and

         8          regulations or proposed rules and regulations

         9          regarding seismic exploration.  It appears

        10          from reading the graft that most of these

        11          regulations are seismic exploration on land.

        12          Thirty CFR, Section 250, the Department of

        13          Interior Middle Management Services rules and

        14          regulations regarding offshore oil and gas

        15          exploration and production is a --

        16               AUDIENCE:  Talk a little louder.

        17               MR. PORTAS:  Thirty CFR, Section 250 are

        18          the code of federal regulations.  It is the

        19          MMS, Middle Management Service rules and

        20          regulations regarding oil and gas exploration

        21          for the entire outer continental shelf.

        22          That's the Atlantic, the Gulf, the Pacific,

        23          and Alaska.

        24               It is a good place to start if you are

        25          going to polish your regulations regarding




                                                             75

         1          marine seismic activities.  It appears from

         2          reading the seismic -- proposed seismic rules

         3          and regulations that they're predominately

         4          for land exploration such as the use of

         5          dynamite in some studies.  That's not done

         6          offshore.  That's not done in the water.

         7          That's a non-issue.

         8               There's been the issue of seismic is

         9          going to kill a bunch of fish.  Guys, in

        10          about two or three weeks shrimp season is

        11          going to open up here.  There's going to be

        12          200 plus boats out there.  Each one is going

        13          to probably dump about 100 pounds (inaudible)

        14          overboard.  That's 20,000 pounds, 10 tons of

        15          fish the first day.  That's an acceptable

        16          loss to you guys?

        17               I don't know if any fish would be killed

        18          in a seismic exploration.  So think about

        19          what you have and what you might have or

        20          whatever.  Those are facts.

        21               The idea of a seismic agent -- I'm a

        22          little concerned who would train these people

        23          and what would their experience be.  Is it

        24          just some kid off the street you're going to

        25          pay $250 a day and he's blind and negligent




                                                             76

         1          to what's going on?  I'd like to see those

         2          individuals well trained and well interviewed

         3          with specific qualifications.  You know, like

         4          you need to have so many years of experience

         5          within oil fields, know what you're looking

         6          at, and that type thing.

         7               I'm not against seismic exploration,

         8          folks.

         9               AUDIENCE:  I am.

        10               I would appreciate silence, sir.

        11               AUDIENCE:  I would appreciate not

        12          drilling in the Gulf.

        13               Folks, let's please be respectful to

        14          everybody that is speaking.  Can we do that?

        15               MR. PORTAS:  Gentlemen -- Ladies and

        16          Gentlemen, you heard the man just before me.

        17          There have been several wells drilled in the

        18          Gulf of Mexico -- excuse me -- in the

        19          Mississippi Sound.  The Chevron well that was

        20          drilled in 1990 was drilled at 23-and-a-half

        21          thousand feet.  I was on that well from start

        22          to finish.  We spent $32 million on it.  It

        23          was a dry hole.  It was a dry hole.

        24               Basically that information is for

        25          science.  You can get that information and




                                                             77

         1          the loss on that well from the Mississippi

         2          Oil and Gas Board.  It's a dry hole.  There

         3          wasn't anything there.  The sapphire well

         4          south of Ship Island, another dry hole.

         5               The purpose of seismic is to look and

         6          see if there is anything there.  If there is

         7          something there, then maybe it will be

         8          explored, and maybe it's producible.  Maybe

         9          it's not.  These are maybes and ifs.  We

        10          don't know.  There's no magic wand that we

        11          can wave out there and say, there's gas here.

        12               AUDIENCE:  We don't want to know.

        13               MR. PORTAS:  That's your choice, but the

        14          state of Mississippi may have that

        15          information locked up for years before they

        16          even release it.  How many years might they

        17          hold it?  They might hold it 10, 20, 30

        18          years.

        19               Then the operators who wish to buy that

        20          information will have to pay a premium.

        21          They'll have to pay a premium for the lease.

        22          These are monies that go directly into the

        23          state treasury.  The counties will get a

        24          little bit.  The majority goes into the

        25          state.




                                                             78

         1               Visual pollution, last time I looked

         2          there weren't any windows on any of the

         3          casinos to look out.

         4               Current technology, we can do --

         5          Mr. Weaver will back me up on this.  You're a

         6          directional driller.  Current technology is

         7          we can drill four to five feet out for every

         8          foot we go down.  There has been some gas

         9          found in the sand stone just above the head

        10          limestone that runs between 3,500 to 3,800

        11          feet down.  That's 40,000 feet.  We can get

        12          approximately 16,000 feet to 20,000 feet from

        13          the bottom hole location to the surface

        14          location.

        15               That's three, four miles, guys.  That's

        16          a long way out.

        17               AUDIENCE:  Come on, man.  Move on.  Let

        18          some other people speak.

        19               I've listened to everyone else.  It's

        20          time that people have an opportunity to

        21          speak.  There's no time limit.

        22               AUDIENCE:  There is a time limit.  There

        23          is a time limit.

        24               MR. HAMILTON:  Okay.  Let him finish up.

        25          I haven't stopped anybody yet from speaking.




                                                             79

         1               There are opportunities for a lot of

         2          people out there if you'd like to consider

         3          it.  There are opportunities for the state.

         4          And who knows, folks, everything out there

         5          may be dry.  There may not be producible

         6          reservoirs.

         7               Think about it.  If the Chevrons and all

         8          of the others thought there was oil and gas

         9          out there, they would have done this a long

        10          time ago, folks, a long time ago.

        11               AUDIENCE:  Why are they doing it now?

        12               I don't know.  There is a well called

        13          (inaudible) that was drilled just north of

        14          Horn Island in '54, '55.  But that well

        15          showed an indication of gas around 3,500,

        16          3,800 feet.

        17               But there have been indications of stuff

        18          off there just offshore, just outside state

        19          waters off Petit Bois.  There have been

        20          indications of gas.  There have been wells

        21          drilled and produced in the sand

        22          approximately 3,500, 3,800 feet.  There may

        23          be stuff here.  There may not be stuff there,

        24          guys.  Nobody knows.

        25               So I hope y'all will consider CFR 30,




                                                             80

         1          Section 250 to polish your rules and

         2          regulations and also give some consideration

         3          to who -- better qualifications for your

         4          seismic agents.

         5               That's all I have to say.  Good night,

         6          folks.

         7               MR. SCHLATTER:  My name is Joe

         8          Schlatter.  I was born up north of here in

         9          Wilkinson County, Mississippi.  I served 30

        10          years in the Army, and I've spent the last

        11          eight years in the coalfields in Central

        12          Appalachian.

        13               I'd would like to make two points here

        14          tonight.  One very specific point, and one

        15          general point.  As the gentleman from the

        16          Mississippi Development Authority was running

        17          through his seismic regulations, I got a

        18          strange sense of deja vu.  I have been here

        19          before.

        20               If you want to understand seismic

        21          operations, you need to go to the coalfields

        22          in Logan County, West Virginia, where they're

        23          removing entire tops of mountains and 16-foot

        24          thick coal seams.  When you go through the

        25          coalfields of Central Appalachian -- Central




                                                             81

         1          Appalachian is an area where Virginia,

         2          Tennessee, Kentucky, and West Virginia all

         3          come together.

         4               What you find is that there are vast

         5          seams of coal that run through those

         6          mountains, and no longer are they drilling

         7          holes and putting people in cars going down

         8          in the bottom of the pit and digging that

         9          stuff out of the mountain.

        10               They're now completely removing tops of

        11          mountains, dumping the soil off in the

        12          hollows, dumping the soil off in the creeks,

        13          stripping the coal out and leaving these

        14          huge, vast, thousand-acre scars on the land.

        15               Well, what does this have to do with

        16          seismic exploration off the Coast of

        17          Mississippi?  Because the state of West

        18          Virginia, the state of Virginia, the state of

        19          Kentucky, the state of Tennessee has seismic

        20          operation and has been stripped by

        21          regulations that are exactly like the

        22          regulations that they showed us here.

        23               And those regulations say such things

        24          as, no blasting within 500 feet of an

        25          occupied well.  Those regulations say if a




                                                             82

         1          coal company fires a shot and cracks the

         2          foundation of a house on the other side of

         3          the rigs, the coal company is responsible for

         4          fixing that foundation.  Those regulations

         5          say coal companies will establish two types

         6          of roads, access roads over which light

         7          vehicles move, heavy roads over which coal

         8          hauling vehicles move.

         9               The regulations that the state of West

        10          Virginia, Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee

        11          have in place governing mining are ignored

        12          every day wholeheartedly and completely

        13          because the coal companies have got more

        14          money than the folks who live in lower

        15          (inaudible).  And that money goes to keep the

        16          politicians elected.

        17               When I heard the stories about the

        18          seismic agents going to be going out here

        19          watching every firecracker that's exploding,

        20          I know that the state inspectors in West

        21          Virginia and Kentucky and Virginia go home at

        22          3:00 in the afternoon, and then the fun

        23          begins.  And that is exactly what's going to

        24          happen here because the oil and gas companies

        25          have a whole lot more money than the folks




                                                             83

         1          who live down here on the beach in Waveland.

         2               Now, that's my specific point.  The

         3          regulations are largely toothless.

         4               We are talking about rearranging the

         5          deck chairs on the Titanic.  This country

         6          imports 20 million barrels of oil a day, and

         7          it's going up.  That means that in five days

         8          we import 100 billion barrels of oil, and in

         9          50 days we import one billion barrels of oil.

        10               We are also importing increasing

        11          quantities of natural gas almost rivaling our

        12          oil imports, and we are importing this stuff

        13          because we have a way of life that is totally

        14          dependant upon access to cheap petroleum and

        15          now natural gas, and yet the sources, the

        16          global sources of petroleum and natural gas

        17          are the most politically unstable parts of

        18          this world.

        19               Furthermore, we are in increasing

        20          competition with China and India for those

        21          same global resources.  We need to be looking

        22          not to the dying industries of petroleum and

        23          natural gas but to the future industries of

        24          alternative fuels because we ain't about to

        25          drill 20 million barrels a day from down here




                                                             84

         1          off Horn Island.

         2               If the Mississippi Development Authority

         3          gave a damn about economic development --

         4          They've done an excellent job of importing

         5          automobile manufacturers into this state.

         6          Why don't they give the same tax breaks and

         7          same incentives to companies that will

         8          develop hydrogen fuel (crowd applauding --

         9          unable to hear speaker) who will develop

        10          solar energy that can be used on homes and

        11          buildings?

        12               What we're looking at tonight is a

        13          choice between two roads.  One road leads to

        14          a future that can gradually get us more and

        15          more energy independent, and the other road

        16          leads us down another dry hole.  It's your

        17          choice.

        18               MS. SPINKS:  My name is Patricia Spinks.

        19          I live in Gulfport, Mississippi.  And I'm not

        20          going to read the comments that I had because

        21          I've learned so much just being here tonight

        22          about what's really going on.

        23               I'd like to compliment the person that

        24          figured out we come down and sell you seismic

        25          exploration without coming down and asking




                                                             85

         1          you, do you want us to mess in your backyard.

         2          This is the question about seismic

         3          exploration, but I compliment you on your

         4          strategy.  I appreciate it.

         5               But I think what you've gleaned from

         6          this meeting is that there are people here

         7          from Pascagoula, Hancock County, Harrison

         8          County, and all municipalities of people who

         9          live here and who are telling you, not in our

        10          backyard.  This is our backyard.  Thank you.

        11               MS. BARKLEY:  I'm Mary Ann Barkley from

        12          Gulfport.  And I've had the privilege of

        13          living on the Mississippi Gulf Coast most of

        14          my life.  I've enjoyed fishing, boating,

        15          swimming, sailing, and the sheer delight of

        16          watching sunsets over the Gulf.

        17               I've delighted in spending nights

        18          anchored -- in a boat anchored off Ship and

        19          Chandelier Islands.  Last year I camped off

        20          Horn Island for five nights with other

        21          artists from the Orr-O'Keefe Museum.  This

        22          was an extraordinary experience.

        23               I want my hometown of the Mississippi

        24          Gulf Coast to remain a beautiful area for our

        25          citizens and our visitors.  I do not want




                                                             86

         1          offshore drilling for gas or oil in our area.

         2          We only look -- have to look at Dauphin

         3          Island to see the devastation that this

         4          activity causes.

         5               I did have some questions tonight about

         6          the financial aspects of the drilling.

         7          You've answered some.  I saw on the board up

         8          here four percent of a certain amount would

         9          go to education.  That's nothing.  That's a

        10          drop in the bucket.

        11               No amount of money can replace the

        12          beauty of our beach, our water, our barrier

        13          islands, our ocean birds, or our sea life.

        14          To sell the character and the soul of our

        15          Gulf Coast for any amount of money would be

        16          trading green for our natural God-given

        17          gifts.  And these are gifts that we could

        18          never replace.

        19               I heard the word "compromise" from one

        20          of you gentlemen tonight.  There is no

        21          compromise.  Our choice is to drill and to

        22          ruin our Gulf Coast or not to drill and

        23          preserve our natural resources and beauty.

        24          We as citizens of this area live in a

        25          democracy, and we, you and I, can decide our




                                                             87

         1          fate.  Thank you.

         2               MR. CAKE:  Good evening.  My name is Ed

         3          Cake.  I'm a 30-year resident of Ocean

         4          Springs.  I operate a private environmental

         5          consulting firm called Environmental

         6          Associates.  And I have for a number of years

         7          been involved in Louisiana monitoring seismic

         8          activities.

         9               I, unlike many of you, today reviewed

        10          extensively the proposals and regulations

        11          that are available on the web site for

        12          seismic operations.  I find those proposed

        13          rules and regulations deficient,

        14          inconsistent, overly broad in general thereby

        15          leaving too much to chance and personal

        16          interpretation.

        17               They are grammatically incorrect and

        18          inconsistent in many places and in dire need

        19          of revision and copy editing.  They are

        20          complete with errors and omissions.  In

        21          summary, they are deficient in their current

        22          form.  I strongly suggest to this panel that

        23          those proposed regulations -- rules and

        24          regulation be withdrawn, revised, redrafted

        25          and reissued at additional hearings in the




                                                             88

         1          future.

         2               Will submit for the record tonight, not

         3          on Friday, but tonight a copy of these

         4          comments.  I respectfully request and require

         5          as a citizen and a voter of this state that

         6          the staff of the MDA correspond with me

         7          directly regarding my proposed revisions.

         8               In particular I am troubled by the broad

         9          and non-specific terminology used in Rule 7,

        10          Letter L that provide geochemical exploration

        11          for mineral resources shall be conducted so

        12          that those activities do not unreasonably

        13          interfere with or endanger operations under

        14          any lease, that do not cause significant harm

        15          or damage to marine life, that do not cause

        16          pollution, that do not create hazardous or

        17          unsafe conditions, that do not cause -- that

        18          do not unreasonably interfere with or harm

        19          other uses of the area or disturb -- do not

        20          disturb cultural resources.

        21               However, in your definitions, and you

        22          have about 29 definitions in the regulations,

        23          you do not define the terms unreasonable,

        24          significant harm, damage, pollution,

        25          hazardous, unsafe, or the term disturbed.




                                                             89

         1               I personally and professionally think

         2          that they're too broad, too non-specific, too

         3          arbitrary, and too capricious.  They need to

         4          be specific.  Unless and until those terms

         5          are specifically defined so as to permit

         6          adequate measurement of those conditions,

         7          they are inappropriate and can not be used to

         8          protect Mississippi's coastal environment.

         9               In addition, there are no rules and

        10          regulations that address the need for

        11          mitigating the damages to the state's private

        12          and public coastal resources.  I work in the

        13          oil field.  I know what these boats do when

        14          they drag these seismic lines and do these

        15          explorations.  I know the oysters they kill

        16          and the grounds that they harm.

        17               There are no suggested best management

        18          practices.  One other individual tonight

        19          mentioned the best management practices.  You

        20          go to the state of Louisiana.  You said that

        21          you talked to the state of Louisiana, their

        22          folks.  They have a set of best management

        23          practices that they require their seismic

        24          folks to use.  I don't see those in this

        25          regulation.




                                                             90

         1               Those best management practices are

         2          required to protect our sea grass beds, our

         3          oyster beds, and our cultural resources.

         4          There are no depth restrictions in those

         5          regulations.  If you've been out there, you

         6          know that these boats run aground.  They harm

         7          the bottom.

         8               I thank you for this.  I give you this

         9          copy.  I want it made a part of the public

        10          record.

        11               MR. OSWALD:  My name is Robert Oswald.

        12          I'm from Pascagoula.  The state has presented

        13          nothing tonight that would cause me to

        14          believe that the nation will be at peril if

        15          there is no exploration and drilling here.

        16               Given that the state's responsibility is

        17          to make a decision that's in the public

        18          interest, what is your definition of the

        19          "public interest"?

        20               I would like to let Mr. Gerald Blessey

        21          have my minute to speak.

        22               MR. HAMILTON:  That's fine with me.

        23               Thank you, Louis.  I'm Gerald Blessey

        24          from Biloxi.  And Louis and Roy Miller and

        25          many others in the room voiced their appeal




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         1          to the Board of Supervisors and to the MDA to

         2          have this meeting tonight to demonstrate to

         3          you what should have been self-evident a long

         4          time ago.  And that is that the people of the

         5          Mississippi Gulf Coast -- the reason why we

         6          have thousands outside that couldn't get in

         7          here, the reason why this room is filled, the

         8          people of the Mississippi Gulf Coast feel

         9          betrayed by their state and national

        10          governments on this issue.

        11               We appeal to you to call off the hearing

        12          in Jackson on Friday and reschedule it for

        13          the Coast Coliseum where you can find out

        14          what the rest of the people think.

        15               We're here because the state and federal

        16          government after several years have still not

        17          addressed the fundamental question which has

        18          been raised over and over again tonight, and

        19          that is, why do it at all?  Why do it at all?

        20          That is the question that we want you to hear

        21          because we feel for all the reasons you've

        22          already heard and for many more that you

        23          could hear if you gave us the time and an

        24          official record at an official hearing, the

        25          reasons why it should not been done at all in




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         1          this wilderness area.

         2               Now, Senator Cochran and the others

         3          should come down here and speak for

         4          themselves and hear what we have to say

         5          directly and answer our questions.  We

         6          realize these regulations should have seismic

         7          drilling statewide, but there is no national

         8          seashore in Tishimingo County.

         9               This is a unique, special place.  This

        10          is not the same as the rest of the places in

        11          Mississippi that you're proposing these rules

        12          for.  We ask you to please back up, stop,

        13          realize that this is special case.  It should

        14          not been applied to any of these other

        15          situations because you should ask the

        16          question, should you be here at all.

        17               You've compared this to Louisiana.  We

        18          don't want the devastation of the Louisiana

        19          coastline which is eroding and disappearing.

        20          They're losing wetlands at a rate every year

        21          comparable to almost all of the wetlands we

        22          have in Mississippi.  We do not want to head

        23          in that direction.

        24               It is bad policy for the state.  It is

        25          bad policy for the federal government to use




                                                             93

         1          this small reserve, if it's there, of oil and

         2          gas product.  Why is it bad policy?  We've

         3          heard a few comments already.  It's bad

         4          policy because this should be the last piece

         5          of a strategic reserve for this nation.  If

         6          we ever get to use this, it should only be

         7          because it's the last energy left instead of

         8          the alternative sources that we must be

         9          developing.

        10               Why not use the Arab oil before we get

        11          to this oil?  Why not use every other source

        12          before we destroy the wilderness?  That's the

        13          question that the federal government did not

        14          answer, that the state government did not

        15          answer, that our state legislators did not

        16          answer, and that you have not come down here

        17          officially to hear.

        18               We appreciate the fact that you've given

        19          this informational hearing, and we appreciate

        20          the fact that the Board of Supervisors were

        21          kind enough to provide at our taxpayer's

        22          expense, not the state expense, this court

        23          reporter and that this record will go to

        24          Jackson.

        25               But we also know that the train has left




                                                             94

         1          the station.  I want to tell you about

         2          another train supposably a done deal that was

         3          done 30 years ago.  Thirty years ago the

         4          federal government proposed and the state

         5          government was going along with putting a

         6          nuclear waste dump in Perry County.  It was a

         7          done deal.  Everybody said all of the policy

         8          makers had made their decisions.  But the

         9          people of the Gulf Coast, the six Coast

        10          counties filled the Coast Coliseum with their

        11          own hearing, with their own scientists and

        12          physicists from around the country to bring

        13          the facts that the state and federal

        14          government would not bring to us.

        15               And those facts showed the great danger,

        16          the great harm of any single one accident in

        17          that particular context, just as you've heard

        18          tonight.

        19               What we are concerned about is not your

        20          degree of accuracy.  We're concerned about

        21          never having to test whether or not there

        22          will be a failure at all.  The solution for

        23          Mississippi, the poorest state in the nation,

        24          is not to try to extract the little bit of

        25          revenue from this public resource.  The




                                                             95

         1          solution is for the federal government to pay

         2          us for this value just as they have for

         3          Florida and Texas applied for to pay us and

         4          leave it in the wilderness area to give the

         5          poorest state in the nation the 300 to 400

         6          million at best that we might receive.  MDOT

         7          is going to spend that much on one road from

         8          I-10 to Highway 90.

         9               Now, our nation has -- As Judge Oswald

        10          said, our nation really and our state is not

        11          going to be preserved, gentlemen.  We know

        12          you're here, and we appreciate your -- the

        13          gentlemanly way that you listened to all of

        14          this.  We know you're here to report back to

        15          people who are really making the decisions.

        16          You're not making the decisions.  There are

        17          policy makers that are our elected

        18          representatives, our governor, our senators,

        19          our legislators, and their appointees who can

        20          reverse this position.  They can reverse it.

        21               Bring the message back to them that we

        22          want them that we want them to reverse it,

        23          that we're not going to get reserved by this

        24          little bit of revenue, this little bit of oil

        25          or gas, whatever is out there that neither




                                                             96

         1          the nation nor the state is really going to

         2          benefit by.

         3               What it can benefit by, what it can be

         4          preserved by is wilderness.  And how does

         5          that happen?  There's a great phrase of Henry

         6          David Thoreau:  In wildness is the

         7          preservation of the world.  And why did he

         8          say that, in wilderness is the preservation

         9          of the world?  Because hopefully the next

        10          generation will do a lot better job than

        11          we've done in preserving our natural places.

        12               And how will they do that?  By

        13          experiencing those natural places, by going

        14          to Horn Island, by experiencing this last

        15          wilderness, one of the last great places on

        16          earth right here in our backyard.

        17               And by that experience to open their

        18          eyes, to open their minds and hopefully

        19          become the stewards of a different form and

        20          different alternative energy, renewable

        21          energy, sustainable energy that will not

        22          ravage the earth.  That's what we need

        23          wilderness for, to know, to experience, to be

        24          in touch with nature, to learn.

        25               As an industrial, we are 19th in math




                                                             97

         1          and science in the world.  China and India is

         2          eating our lunch.  Why, because so many of

         3          our young people are now removed from the

         4          knowledge of math and science, from the

         5          experience of the natural environment.

         6               Don't take this last place away from us.

         7          Take this message instead back to your

         8          superiors.  Take it back to Washington, and

         9          take it back to Jackson.  Here's the message

        10          from the Gulf Coast:  No.  No.  No.  No

        11          seismic.  No drilling.  No destruction.  No

        12          oil and gas exploration in our wilderness,

        13          not here, not now, and not ever.

        14               AUDIENCE:  Very quickly, since I know

        15          everybody is ready to go home, I think it's

        16          appropriate that they saved the foreigner for

        17          last.  I come here tonight from cajun

        18          country, from Baton Rouge, but I'm a native

        19          of Pascagoula.  I came here for one reason --

        20          actually, two now that I've got here and

        21          heard what they had to say.

        22               I looked at my -- I have a son.  He's a

        23          week old, and I hated leaving him tonight.  I

        24          hated leaving my wife.  She's still

        25          recovering, but I looked in his eyes, and I




                                                             98

         1          told him, I said, you know what, I want you

         2          to experience the islands the way I was able

         3          to.

         4               The only way we're going to do that is

         5          to fight.  Please everybody take this fight

         6          to your home, to your business, and to your

         7          leaders.

         8               The second thing I want to say real

         9          quick is the I find it laughable that you put

        10          on that screen that you asked the advice of

        11          the people from Louisiana.  They're facing

        12          the worst ecological disaster this nation has

        13          ever seen, and you're going to get their

        14          advice on coastal erosion, coastal drilling,

        15          anything else.  That's ridiculous.  I want to

        16          ask -- What was his name, Mr. Bob Morton; is

        17          that right, your expert?

        18               MR. MOODY:  Yes, Bob Morton.

        19               AUDIENCE:  I want to call Bob right now,

        20          if you'll give me his number, and ask him if

        21          he has a really big truck because I talked to

        22          my geologist friend that lives in South

        23          Louisiana -- Bob Morton wants to say that

        24          there's no such thing as subsidence.  He

        25          needs to get his big truck down there to pull




                                                             99

         1          them out of the ground that has sunk because

         2          of the gas that has been extracted from that

         3          ground.

         4               You extract from beneath the island, it

         5          won't even be repaired.  It's done.  So if I

         6          can get his number from you, I'll get him to

         7          go tow my friend out before tonight is over

         8          with.

         9               MR. ABRAMS:  My name is Don Abrams.  I

        10          lived here in Ocean Springs.  I grew up over

        11          in Mobile and started going to Dauphin Island

        12          very shortly after they built the bridge over

        13          there.  I used to sit on Dauphin Island and

        14          look out over the Gulf Coast, and my

        15          imagination went all around the world.

        16               I can no longer do that on Dauphin

        17          Island because the oil and gas rigs are all

        18          over the place.  There are crew boats and

        19          helicopters whizzing back and forth.

        20               I pulled out one of my navigation charts

        21          the other day and looked at the position of

        22          the wells on Dauphin Island.  We're talking

        23          about putting something within a mile of our

        24          wilderness barrier islands here.  I couldn't

        25          find a single rig on Dauphin Island that was




                                                            100

         1          that close.  The majority of them are quite a

         2          bit further out.

         3               I'm extremely concerned about the visual

         4          impact of these things.  I've had the very

         5          good fortune to spend the last three nights

         6          out on the south beach of Horn Island

         7          camping.  That place could have been in 1954

         8          when I was a little kid out on Dauphin

         9          Island.  The only thing I saw out there were

        10          a few satellites and six or eight shrimp boat

        11          lights out in the Gulf.

        12               No matter how good of a job you do with

        13          these regulations, no matter how fortunate we

        14          are in avoiding any sort of accident, you

        15          will destroy that if we drill those islands.

        16          We're looking for the best path to do this.

        17          This gentleman just said we look to

        18          Mississippi.

        19               The oil and gas industry has torn the

        20          heart out of Mississippi -- excuse me --

        21          Louisiana to the point that there is serious

        22          concern now about a hurricane coming in from

        23          the south, moving over what used to be

        24          protected marshes and breaking through the

        25          levees in Mississippi and restoring the




                                                            101

         1          Mississippi River to its former path of the

         2          Chapaline Basin.

         3               That's what's happening to oil and gas

         4          in Louisiana.  And Alabama, my mom still

         5          lives in Mobile.  This has been no

         6          (inaudible).  Property taxes are still

         7          soaring over there.  Energy prices -- This is

         8          not about energy prices.  This is not about

         9          having adequate reserves of energy.

        10               In my eyes this is about Governor Haley

        11          Barbour repaying a quarter of a million

        12          dollars (crowd applauding -- unable to hear

        13          speaker) and taking care of a lot of his

        14          friends.  He did visit the Coast recently.

        15          He came down and took a ride in the speed

        16          boat during the Smokin' the Sound.  His view

        17          of wilderness may be up the interstate

        18          interchange without a Shoney's, but mine is

        19          different.

        20               Governor Barbour, if you want to come

        21          down here, I would love to show you these

        22          islands.  If any of you gentlemen would like

        23          to go out there and see what some of us have

        24          been talking about here --

        25               I'm not an artist.  I'm an engineer, but




                                                            102

         1          there's something that happens inside me when

         2          I get out there to the point that I did it

         3          four days this week.  The previous week I was

         4          out fishing with a buddy on Petit Bois, and

         5          I'm still driven from that.  Earlier in the

         6          week I had two trips out to Ship Island.

         7               I moved here because of these islands.

         8          There is nothing like this anywhere else

         9          around.  If we're looking to Louisiana for

        10          inspiration, we're screwing up.  I can say

        11          this because I'm from Alabama.  You know, God

        12          help us if we're looking to Alabama to be as

        13          good as they are.  It boggles my mind to even

        14          try to imagine these islands, this Sound

        15          looking like Dauphin Island Sound and Dauphin

        16          Island does now.

        17               A couple of dollars and cents issues.

        18          You're the Mississippi Development Authority.

        19          I'm assuming that means more than just oil

        20          and natural gas.  If I looked around this

        21          area and tried to find the experts on making

        22          money, I'd have to look at the gaming

        23          industry.

        24               What do they say?  They say that

        25          drilling is going to be a disaster for the




                                                            103

         1          tourism industry here.  I'm very disappointed

         2          in way the governor has done this deal.

         3               You mentioned tiptoeing and wiggling, I

         4          think, about seismic exploration.  That seems

         5          to be the way this bill has gotten through,

         6          the way this issue has been handled here.

         7               I really hope Senator Cochran will show

         8          some backbone and try to get us the same deal

         9          that Jeb Bush got for Florida.  I spent a lot

        10          of time on these islands.  I've spent time in

        11          the Big Bend area.  These islands are

        12          prettier than the Big Bend area.  If we

        13          taxpayers can spend our federal tax dollars

        14          to protect that area from drilling, why can't

        15          we do it for Mississippi?  Is Mississippi

        16          not as (crowd applauding -- unable to hear

        17          speaker).  Do we not deserve what Florida

        18          got -- I'm sorry.  Is Mississippi not as good

        19          as Florida?

        20               I hate coming back and spoiling all of

        21          that tranquility from being out on the

        22          islands yesterday, but this is important.  I

        23          hope our senators and our congressmen and our

        24          representatives can show a little initiative

        25          here, show some spine and at least pursue




                                                            104

         1          this issue of having the federal government

         2          buy out the mineral resources here.

         3               It's an opportunity for somebody to be a

         4          hero.  The governor is not going to do it.  I

         5          don't know whether the senators or the

         6          representatives are going to do it.  You

         7          gentlemen might be able to do it.  I'm not

         8          sure what your charter, what your commission

         9          is.  But if you could prompt that effort and

        10          make that happen, protect those islands, and

        11          push the drilling further offshore, you would

        12          be heroes.  People will be naming their

        13          children after you.

        14               So having said that, let me just

        15          complain about a few things.  You came down

        16          and told us that -- I wrote this down I was

        17          so impressed with it -- sea turtles will

        18          leave more tracks than these people, speaking

        19          of the folks doing the seismic exploration.

        20          No.

        21               You said that tourism doesn't go down

        22          when drilling comes in.  You said it has not

        23          at Dauphin Island.  No.

        24               Please don't come here and try to

        25          mislead us or distract us with these sorts of




                                                            105

         1          things.  The people out there doing that

         2          seismic exploration will leave far more

         3          impact on those islands than sea turtles do,

         4          far more than backpackers.  I doubt that

         5          they're going to walk all over those islands,

         6          that wilderness island, Horn Island.  They're

         7          probably going to have four-wheelers out

         8          there which means they're going to have to

         9          cut some brush down to move through it.

        10               They won't?

        11               MR. MOODY:  No motorized vehicles.

        12               Is that written some place?  Okay.  It's

        13          not in the rules.

        14               AUDIENCE:  It's not in the rules.

        15               You're the people we hold accountable

        16          when we see it happen.

        17               Mr. Portas mentioned that we can do four

        18          to one horizontal drilling, directional

        19          drilling.  Why don't we have the regulation

        20          set up to exclude the surface rigs further

        21          than a mile from the barrier islands.

        22               AUDIENCE:  Add it to the rules.

        23               If we can hit it from four miles, why do

        24          we say let's let them do it within a mile?

        25          Again, it sounds like a sweet deal for




                                                            106

         1          somebody here.  I've rewritten everything I

         2          wanted to say about 14 times because other

         3          people said it better.

         4               So it's an honest invitation.  If any of

         5          you would like to see those islands and try

         6          to understand why so many of us get excited

         7          about them, John Anderson, Paul Neddles,

         8          there are all sorts of people in this room

         9          who would be happy to take you out there, who

        10          would be proud to take you out there and show

        11          you what makes those things so special.

        12               We have something here in Mississippi

        13          that no one else has on the Gulf Coast.  And

        14          a barrier island is not like a cow pasture or

        15          a timber lot in North Mississippi.

        16          Regulations need to be completely different

        17          to take care of this area.

        18               The visual concerns -- the photographs

        19          are great, but photographs are not a

        20          substitute for seeing the thing with your

        21          eye.  There are days out here in the Gulf

        22          when I can see the Beau Rivage from 15 miles

        23          away.  And to suggest that those rigs are

        24          going to disappear in three miles is

        25          misleading.




                                                            107

         1               That's it.  Thank you very much.

         2               I yield to Louis Skrmetta.

         3               MR. SKRMETTA:  My name is Louis

         4          Skrmetta.  I own Ship Island Excursions.

         5          It's a business that my grandfather started

         6          in 1926.  I'm a concessionaire with Gulf

         7          Islands National Seashore.  We're in the

         8          business of carrying people to a beautiful,

         9          wonderful place for its solitude, tranquility

        10          with long, beautiful, enchanting beaches.

        11               The last thing my customers want to is

        12          to view an oil rig or a gas rig.  We'll call

        13          it whatever you want to call it.  I want to

        14          talk mainly about the economics of tourism

        15          and the impact of tourism on the Coast of

        16          Mississippi.  And we will be submitting prior

        17          to close of the commentary a report prepared

        18          by economists at the consulting firm of

        19          Economics Northwest, experts that determine

        20          the cost and benefits of natural resource

        21          questions.

        22               What the economists tell us and what our

        23          common sense tells us is this:

        24          Industrializing the Mississippi Sound for gas

        25          exploration has many natural and potential




                                                            108

         1          costs, costs to the existing businesses, and

         2          visitors stay away.  This can be many

         3          millions of dollars.  Use your personal

         4          experience here.

         5               It is a fact that if you have gas

         6          platforms one mile off Ship Island, an awful

         7          lot of people are going to stay away.

         8          They're going to go to west Florida or Gulf

         9          Shores where they don't have the damn things.

        10          Cost to local governments with the roads and

        11          the infrastructure, marinas.  Where are these

        12          crew boats and all of these helicopters going

        13          to be landing and taking off?

        14               Cost to everyone who loses the quality

        15          of life.  Cost to coastal property owners.

        16          None of these costs have been taken into

        17          account, and there is no basis to say that

        18          gas drilling in the Mississippi Sound will

        19          benefit the Coast or state.

        20               When you talk about possible revenues

        21          from natural gas, you're not talking about

        22          the real benefits because you are, in fact,

        23          putting our existing economy at risk.  We are

        24          not -- We're not even being given the choice

        25          about whether we want to have all these




                                                            109

         1          costs.

         2               Seismic exploration is the first step on

         3          the road to rigs off the beaches of the Gulf

         4          Islands National Seashore.  Thank you.

         5               MR. FOURNIER:  A lot of people have come

         6          here to speak about the water quality,

         7          environment, pristine areas.  I'm speaking of

         8          natural resources.  My name is Doty Fournier.

         9          I represent Fournier Seafood.

        10               My grandfather and my father went into

        11          business in 1928.  They lost their shop in

        12          the storm.  They rebuilt.  They lost another

        13          one in '47.  We rebuilt again.  We lost that

        14          one in Camille.  We rebuilt again.  We have

        15          paid dues.  I have the right to speak today.

        16               Now, I have seen what a busted oil pipe

        17          would do to an oyster reef.  I saw what

        18          happened in Port Sulfur.  It completely

        19          destroyed the reef.

        20               Now, before we go any further, let's

        21          don't think of this thing as some big, giant

        22          area, okay.  How about this:  The United

        23          States has millions of square miles, millions

        24          of square miles that they can drill.  And

        25          they can drill miles and miles over water.




                                                            110

         1               Did y'all really take a look at this

         2          map?  Do you know what we're really fighting

         3          over?  Do you know what we're fighting over?

         4          Look at it.  This is a little sorry 450

         5          square miles.  They have millions of miles

         6          out there, but yet they want to fight over

         7          this little 400, 450 square miles.

         8               Now, when you have these barrier islands

         9          here and you have a busted oil pipeline or

        10          anything, everything inside that is

        11          destroyed.  I am out of business.  I am out

        12          of business.  Are you going to pay my salary,

        13          my family's salary?

        14               We have gone through four generations of

        15          this.  We're just talking about a little 400,

        16          450 square miles compared to millions of

        17          square miles.  What is it that you want

        18          inside there that you cannot get somewhere

        19          else?  What's the big deal?

        20               They say, money talks, BS walks.  Who is

        21          getting the money?  That's all I've got to

        22          say.

        23               MR. RYAN:  I'm Dennis Ryan, and I'm from

        24          Ocean Springs.  My family goes back

        25          generations there.  I have some really strong




                                                            111

         1          feelings about the aesthetics that have

         2          already been talked about and also about the

         3          economies that have already been talked

         4          about.  I asked when I came in if I could ask

         5          some questions as well as make some

         6          statements.  All of the statements I think

         7          have already been made, but I do have some

         8          questions.

         9               Mr. Leland Speed is the executive

        10          director of MDA.  Have I got that correct?

        11          Where is he, and why is he not here tonight?

        12               MR. WATTERS:  He's out of the country.

        13               MR. RYAN:  Pardon?

        14               MR. WATTERS:  He's out of the country.

        15               MR. RYAN:  Out of the country.  I see.

        16          How many other members are there of the MDA?

        17               MR. HAMILTON:  300, roughly.

        18               MR. RYAN:  Three hundred appointed

        19          members of --

        20               MR. HAMILTON:  When you say "members," I

        21          don't know exactly what you mean.

        22               MR. RYAN:  Well, Leland Speed is the

        23          executive director.  Are there other -- What

        24          other positions are there?  What do you guys

        25          do?  I walked in and I saw the suits, and I




                                                            112

         1          immediately was terrified.  I mean, what do

         2          you guys do?  What are you going to be able

         3          to do for us?

         4               The mayor asked you to take something

         5          back.  Well, what can you personally do for

         6          the concerns that are being expressed here

         7          tonight?  What will you commit to do for all

         8          of these people who have talked to you?

         9          That's what I want to know.  I want you to

        10          answer those questions.  What are you willing

        11          to do here tonight and later when you get

        12          back to Jackson for us?

        13               The second thing is, several people have

        14          talked about the possibility of stopping this

        15          train.  I want you to tell us tonight how the

        16          train can be stopped.  Can you do that?  Can

        17          you tell us what process you, personally, can

        18          give that will stop the train?

        19               MR. HAMILTON:  That's not what we're

        20          here to do.

        21               AUDIENCE:  You're here to tell us --

        22               MR. HAMILTON:  We're not going to have a

        23          debate.  That's the reason we're not

        24          answering those questions because it's not a

        25          debate.  We're not going to do it.  Say your




                                                            113

         1          comments.  Make your questions.

         2               MR. RYAN:  Okay.  How can you gentlemen

         3          here tonight help us stop the train, to stop

         4          the process so that further investigations

         5          can be made and the citizens of the Gulf

         6          Coast know more about what's fixing to happen

         7          to them?  How can you do that?

         8               MR. HAMILTON:  Thank you.

         9               So I guess it can't be stopped.  Is that

        10          what you're saying?

        11               MR. HAMILTON:  That's not what we're

        12          saying.

        13               AUDIENCE:  What are you here for?  Why

        14          are you here?

        15               MR. HAMILTON:  We're here to hear your

        16          comments.

        17               AUDIENCE:  We want to know is it cut and

        18          dry tonight.  Are we wasting our time here?

        19               He don't care.  He's here because he's

        20          paid to be here.

        21               Do we make a difference?

        22               We make a difference.  Don't let them

        23          convince you that we don't make a difference.

        24          We make a difference, and we count.  Call

        25          your congressmen.  We count.




                                                            114

         1               AUDIENCE:  Just ignore the man behind

         2          the curtain.

         3               MR. WIYGUL:  I'm afraid what I have to

         4          say is going to sound kind of dry after what

         5          y'all have heard tonight.  I'm Robert Wiygul.

         6          I live in Ocean Springs.  I'm an

         7          environmental attorney.  I was asked to be

         8          here by the Sierra Club and by the Gulf

         9          Islands Conservancy to look at these

        10          regulations.

        11               I look at regulations all day long.

        12          That's what I live and die by as an attorney.

        13          Just like my colleague like Mr. Watters up

        14          here and Mr. Blessey, that's what we live and

        15          die by.  I have over 20 years of doing that,

        16          looking at endangered species and clean water

        17          and clean air and oil and gas and public

        18          lands management and all the other things, I

        19          want to instill one lesson which you've

        20          already heard tonight.

        21               In regulations you do not spell out

        22          exactly what the requirements and the

        23          protections are that you're going to put in

        24          place.  Those protections are not going to be

        25          there for you.  These regulations do not




                                                            115

         1          contain any protections for you from seismic

         2          activity in the Sound.  That's not just

         3          coming from me.

         4               We asked Professor A.C. Clark, who is a

         5          professor of geophysics at Rice University in

         6          Houston, Texas.  He knows this area.  We

         7          asked him to take a look at these and tell us

         8          what he thought.  Professor Clark came back

         9          and said, well, my general impression of

        10          these regulations is that they are vague and

        11          unenforceable.  They do not take into account

        12          the impacts of the seismic activity which

        13          involves generating big sounds and have

        14          unsensitive resources particularly in shallow

        15          water areas like what we have here in the

        16          Mississippi Sound.

        17               The regulations do not require best

        18          management practices, and those protections

        19          that they do contain are so broadly worded

        20          that there is no means of enforcing those,

        21          and there's going to be no means of citizens

        22          knowing whether those protections are in

        23          place.  We have a report from Professor Clark

        24          that we will be submitting into the record in

        25          this before the end of the week.




                                                            116

         1               Now, as I was listening to Mr. Moody

         2          present what was a very rosy picture of what

         3          seismic exploration would look like, I had to

         4          contrast that with what I was seeing and

         5          hearing from Professor Clark and the

         6          literature about seismic exploration.

         7               Now, it is a fact, and I don't think we

         8          can back away from it, that seismic

         9          exploration activities can pose dangers to

        10          fish and wildlife.  It can kill fish and

        11          wildlife.  It causes behavioral changes in

        12          fish and wildlife in larger areas.

        13               Now, there are many ways that you can

        14          protect resources from seismic, but they're

        15          not in the regulations that we have here

        16          today.  An example is, in Canada when they

        17          looked at doing seismic exploration off the

        18          Coast of British Columbia, they studied.

        19          They got the Royal Society of Canada, which

        20          is top scientists there, to look at it.  And

        21          I was surprised to learn that Royal Society

        22          of Canada thought that a bling barometer

        23          buffer zone around water depths less than 20

        24          meters should be sufficient.

        25               Now, 20 meters is a little less than




                                                            117

         1          60 feet or something like that.

         2               Now, Captain Skrmetta, how many places

         3          in the Mississippi Sound have water depths of

         4          60 feet?

         5               MR. SKRMETTA:  None.

         6               MR. WIYGUL:  If we put an exclusion

         7          around those depths, we're not going to be

         8          doing seismic in the Mississippi Sound.  I

         9          have learned one other thing in the course of

        10          that 20 years looking at regulations, and

        11          this relates directly to what one gentleman

        12          said here and what we've heard here that this

        13          is just a seismic.  It doesn't really have

        14          anything to do with later exploring,

        15          producing.

        16               I know this:  If a man buys a chainsaw,

        17          the first thing he does is go start looking

        18          for a tree.  If you spend a couple million

        19          dollars doing seismic, you're going to want

        20          to go out and take advantage of that.

        21               The final thing I want to leave you with

        22          is, we've heard the legislation that went

        23          through in this emergency supplemental

        24          appropriations bill discussed tonight.  I

        25          want to make one thing clear.  That




                                                            118

         1          legislation is not what it's been billed to

         2          be by some folks.  There were -- There are

         3          regulations that apply to national parks just

         4          like our national seashore out here that deal

         5          with situations where somebody else might

         6          have the minerals and might want to come in

         7          and do seismic exploration.

         8               And those regulations say you can take

         9          park resources first.  They took our park out

        10          from under that and put them under a special

        11          set of regulations that says the Secretary of

        12          Interior shall allow seismic in the park

        13          consisting of oil and gas extraction.

        14          They've already put oil and gas above park

        15          resources.

        16               And we shouldn't let that happen to

        17          anything else here.  We've got to let these

        18          folks know.  They came down from Jackson to

        19          hear it.  We should let them know that that

        20          kind of thing should not be happening to our

        21          park and our Sound.

        22               MR. MILLER:  Good evening.  My name is

        23          Louie Miller.  And I'm the state director of

        24          the Mississippi Sierra Club.  And I just want

        25          to tip my hat tonight to the people of the




                                                            119

         1          Coast who have shown up in record numbers to

         2          express to express their opposition to this

         3          bad idea.  What a bad idea.

         4               You know, I see Mr. Heidel up here

         5          tonight.  He's former executive director of

         6          Mississippi Development Authority under

         7          Governor Fordice.  And, you know, a lot of

         8          time we -- I know these people are put in

         9          positions where somebody comes in, a snake

        10          oil salesman from wherever and says, hey,

        11          we've got at great idea.  Seven thousand head

        12          hog farms all over the northeastern part of

        13          the state.  Big money, you know, very little

        14          regulation.  They ran them out of North

        15          Carolina.  Let's invite them to Mississippi.

        16               And the people of Mississippi and

        17          Northeast Mississippi said not no, but hell

        18          no to that idea.  As a result of that, Mr.

        19          Heidel understood that, and he went back to

        20          his boss at the time, which was Governor

        21          Fordice, and said, you know, how do we stop

        22          this because, look, this is a bad idea.  I've

        23          been up there.  I've looked at these things.

        24          I smell them.  Lord have mercy.  It's bad.

        25               You know, the same thing I want you,




                                                            120

         1          Mr. Heidel, to take back because I know

         2          you're, I assume, being contracted by MDA to

         3          look at this idea -- I assume that's the

         4          situation.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  But I

         5          think you should take back to the current

         6          boss man up there, Governor Haley Barbour,

         7          that this is a bad idea.

         8               We have a multi-billion dollar tourism

         9          industry on the Coast.  I remember the Coast

        10          before gaming.  Whatever you think about

        11          gaming, it has revitalized this Coast's

        12          economy to a point that I think we all see

        13          what's there today.  We're talking about

        14          smart growth now.  We're talking about

        15          Mr. Heidel's boss, who is not here tonight,

        16          which I'm really surprised about, Scott --

        17          I'm very disappointed Leland Speed, who we

        18          know personally, was down here saying, hey,

        19          we don't like this condo business.  We've got

        20          to get in front of the curve.  This is going

        21          to overtake the Coast.

        22               What about oil and gas drilling on

        23          barrier islands?  This is a huge tourism

        24          economy.  You talk to recreational voters.

        25          You talk to commercial shrimpers, commerical




                                                            121

         1          oystermen.  They will all tell you, bad idea.

         2               You came down here, Mr. Moody, in 1996

         3          and sat in the same building and tried to

         4          sell the people of the Coast the same bad

         5          idea.  The people of the Coast told you then

         6          it was a bad idea, and I think tonight the

         7          sentiment is exactly the same.  It's no.

         8               I want to say a couple more things here.

         9          I don't know if Connie Rocko is still in the

        10          building tonight.  I just want to thank

        11          Supervisor Rocko for having (crowd

        12          applauding -- unable to hear speaker) because

        13          this hearing would not be here tonight if it

        14          was not for the Harrison County Board of

        15          Supervisors telling MDA you better bring your

        16          butt down here, and you better hold a

        17          hearing.

        18               I find it deplorable that the

        19          communications director and Mr. Moody have

        20          told numerous people, we don't have a budget

        21          for a court reporter.  If they have a

        22          300-person agency and you've got a budget to

        23          bring this many folks down here, you have a

        24          budget to hold a hearing that is on the

        25          record that (crowd applauding -- unable to




                                                            122

         1          hear speaker) to come down here and tell you

         2          what they think about your bad ideas.

         3               But you have insulted me and the people

         4          of the Coast by coming down here with a,

         5          quote, informational hearing that's not even

         6          part of the record.  And as someone said

         7          earlier, you hold a hearing at 9:00 a.m. in

         8          Jackson at the Woolfolk state office building

         9          that's metered parking -- and only I pay $60

        10          a month as a lobbyist to have a parking spot

        11          so I can get to the capitol on time.  And

        12          you're going to ask the people to drive

        13          three-and-a-half hours to be at a 9:00 a.m.

        14          hearing at the Woolfolk state office being on

        15          a Friday before Memorial Day Weekend.  Shame

        16          on you.

        17               And I want to tell you what can be done

        18          here.  I have the special minutes of the

        19          special meeting of the Mississippi Major

        20          Economic Impact Authority that was on

        21          April 20th, '05, in which they make the

        22          distinction, and I would like to know, still

        23          want to know who was at the meeting.  I still

        24          don't have an answer to that.

        25               You've got to understand, one person




                                                            123

         1          makes this decision, and it's Leland Speed

         2          and the folks around here and Joe Sims, who's

         3          the oil and gas (inaudible) sitting right

         4          over here in the yellow tie that (crowd

         5          booing -- unable to hear speaker) in the

         6          state capitol.

         7               And so the state oil salesman, there he

         8          is.  I love Joe, but this is ridiculous, and

         9          it's uncalled for.  And at the April 20th

        10          meeting, it was said that after a discussion

        11          of the rules and a determination that the

        12          promulgation of these rules is in the best

        13          interest of the state of Mississippi.

        14               The underside does direct that these

        15          rules be set for hearing at a special

        16          meeting, 9:00 a.m. on the 27th of May on the

        17          sixth floor of the Woolfolk office building.

        18          Good luck getting a parking spot.

        19               AUDIENCE:  How many people does the

        20          building hold?

        21               You'd have to ask these folks up here.

        22          I just want to say that this meeting was not

        23          announced.  I didn't know about it.  None of

        24          you folks knew about it.  Nobody knew about

        25          this meeting.  They made the decision that




                                                            124

         1          this was in the best interest of the state of

         2          Mississippi.

         3               I want you, Mr. Moody, and you,

         4          Mr. Heidel, and the rest of y'all to take

         5          back to your bosses that this is not in the

         6          best interest of the state of Mississippi.

         7          What is in the best interest of the state is

         8          to buy out the mineral rights, go to Thad

         9          Cochran and get him to basically strip the

        10          parks service of their ability to protect

        11          those islands with the stealth legislation

        12          that was on Page 27 of the procreations bill.

        13               Go back to Thad Cochran and tell him

        14          that the people of the Coast have spoken, and

        15          they've spoken very loudly and very clearly.

        16          And the best option here is a win-win for the

        17          state of Mississippi, and that is to get a

        18          federal procreations back.

        19               It's a win for the parks because it

        20          finally protects them not only on the

        21          surface, but under the surface.  And it also

        22          is a win for the school children in this

        23          state, which 75 percent of those dollars will

        24          go into.

        25               The state is broke right now.  Mr.




                                                            125

         1          Heidel, you know this.  The state is broke.

         2          It's not broke, but it's broke-broke, 2- to

         3          $300 million.  Let's jack the price up and

         4          let's say there's 500 billion cubic feet of

         5          gas out there that was done by the

         6          Mississippi Mineral Resource Institute that

         7          was not a peer review study, that nobody of

         8          any credibility that has looked at that study

         9          and said, you know, you're right.  There's

        10          500 billion cubic feet of natural gas in the

        11          (inaudible) -- That's absurd.

        12               The man who did this study has been

        13          taught -- has been described by his

        14          colleagues at DEQ that the one who wrote the

        15          study as the van Gogh geology.  In other

        16          words, he sees things that aren't there.

        17               I'm just going to finish up my remarks

        18          here.  Mr. Moody said the other day that he

        19          saw on WTNI -- that he saw the -- that

        20          wilderness values on Horn and Petis Bois

        21          islands were compatible with oil and gas

        22          drilling.

        23               I don't know, Mr. Moody, where you get

        24          that, but if you look at the Wilderness Act

        25          and you look at oil and gas drilling, I can't




                                                            126

         1          think of two things that are more

         2          incompatible.  And I just want the people

         3          here to know that these rules and regulations

         4          will be -- if you go to Page 4 of Subsection

         5          C, all of this will be done in secrecy.  You

         6          will not know.  I will not know.

         7               Nobody except Leland Speed and the

         8          executive director of MDA will know where

         9          these lines are being shot.  You know, that

        10          in and of itself is incredibly unacceptable

        11          to the public in this day and age.

        12               We are not living in a third world

        13          dictatorship and the people of this Coast

        14          need to know where these proposed lines are

        15          going to be, what kind of exploration

        16          activities it's going to be.

        17               And you said again, Mr. Moody, I think,

        18          disinforming people here tonight that these

        19          are going to be 20-by-20 platforms.  Judge

        20          Sims is over here day in and day out of the

        21          Mississippi legislature when you were

        22          slipping this legislation through.  And I

        23          just want to say you put it in the regs that

        24          there will be a 20-by-20 platform and show me

        25          one in this Gulf of Mexico and -- well, I




                                                            127

         1          won't say what I will do, but I will just

         2          leave it at that.

         3               But this is absurd.  You also say you're

         4          not going to run the wilderness out.  Put it

         5          in the regs.  Show us where you say we're not

         6          going to do that.  Trust me, it ain't cutting

         7          in anymore.  You tell us, put it in the regs,

         8          we are not going on the wilderness.  Why did

         9          the legislation pass with Senator Cochran?

        10          Tell me why you had to go in there and

        11          undermine the park service and put in there

        12          that you can do seismic activity in the park

        13          when you ain't going to do it.

        14               It is a bad idea.  The Coast told you in

        15          '96 it was a bad idea.  The Coast has spoken.

        16          And I think -- I wish you would have held

        17          this meeting in a building that would have

        18          accommodated the numbers of people that are

        19          standing in 90-degree heat that are trying to

        20          get in here, another insult to the people of

        21          the Coast.

        22               This is just unbelievable the way this

        23          has been treated.  I just want to say that

        24          drilling in our national parks is

        25          inappropriate.  There are appropriate places




                                                            128

         1          to drill.  This is inappropriate.  Mr. Doty

         2          says there ain't much out there.  Let's take

         3          care of what we've got.  We've got a full

         4          capacity.  We've got a full load out there

         5          right now.

         6               Again, I just want to say, would we

         7          drill Yellowstone?  No.  Would we drill

         8          Yosemite as a second-class citizen?  Thank

         9          you.

        10               MR. LAIRD:  I'm Henry Laird.  I live in

        11          Pass Christian.  I'm fortunate enough to have

        12          a camp on Cat Island.

        13               AUDIENCE:  Henry, we can't hear you.

        14               MR. LAIRD:  I'm going to try to separate

        15          my love for the islands and my emotion about

        16          those islands due to the late hour and due to

        17          the fact that I'll have another opportunity,

        18          I'm sure, to be before you.

        19               I've been here before, Jack, and I'll be

        20          here again.  I want to thank you for being

        21          here tonight.  I know it was not pleasant,

        22          but I trust it has been memorable.  And I

        23          anticipate that they will become more

        24          frequent and more memorable.

        25               I would like to the extent possible to




                                                            129

         1          restrict my comments to the specific purpose

         2          of this informational meeting on seismic and

         3          other exploration regulations as proposed.

         4          But first and quickly I'd like to make some

         5          comments about some of the introductory

         6          remarks by the MDA.

         7               If the regulations and the management of

         8          the oil and gas industry that regulate the

         9          oil and gas industry over the last decades

        10          have been so good and so safe and so

        11          productive and so efficient, why was

        12          jurisdiction transferred from DEQ to MDA?

        13               The answer at least partly lies in the

        14          fact that we are shifting the balance of

        15          concern from protecting the environment, from

        16          protecting our way of life to industrializing

        17          and promoting an industry that has no place

        18          in our national park.  If it was done so

        19          well, why is it being changed to a

        20          development authority?

        21               Secondly, and related to that point,

        22          when I read these proposed regulations, they

        23          are only vague and ambiguous and to some

        24          extent -- I say so as an attorney --

        25          unenforceable, they invite conjunctive relief




                                                            130

         1          by a court from this area or perhaps as far

         2          away as Washington D.C.  They invite

         3          decisions made pursuant to these regulations

         4          to be overturned because they're arbitrarily

         5          capricious, without foundation.

         6               You can't get meaningful answers to what

         7          you're regulating here, and I'll come to that

         8          again.  But along the way, if you as the MDA

         9          are going to be bound by the recommendations

        10          of the other agencies involved, the

        11          Department of Marine Resource, the Department

        12          of Environmental Quality, why are you here?

        13          Why do we have to have another level of

        14          authority to tell us what's best unless it is

        15          to promote the oil and gas industry in our

        16          Gulf?

        17               Third, Jack, you didn't tell us about

        18          your conversations with Florida.

        19               MR. MOODY:  Who?

        20               Florida.  You told us about Louisiana.

        21          You told us about Alabama.  You told us about

        22          Texas.  I say you should go to Florida.  I

        23          say you should go find out why it is not

        24          allowed there.  I'm talking about seismic

        25          exploration.  I'm talking about drilling.




                                                            131

         1          I'm talking about production.  And don't

         2          think for a minute -- maybe most people don't

         3          know this, but since I've been here in 1959

         4          when I was nine years old, I had a good

         5          fortune of fishing from Louisiana to the

         6          Florida panhandle and sailing there day and

         7          night.

         8               These rigs you did not show us on the

         9          photograph.  It can't be shown.  You know

        10          it's like another city out there.  You know

        11          when you go to Chandelier, it is noisy.

        12          There's pollution from the rigs themselves

        13          coming too close, flairs from the

        14          helicopters.  It's going to destroy what the

        15          purpose of the national park is here.  Your

        16          photographs did not show that and cannot show

        17          that.

        18               My overall general problem with the

        19          proposed regs is they're not proactive in

        20          nature.  They're reactive in nature, and

        21          they're too general.  Now let me just address

        22          some points.  What hasn't been said is that

        23          you're going to acquire a $75,000 bond to

        24          operate.  I suggest a $5 million or more.

        25               Your regulations that are proposed did




                                                            132

         1          not tell us whether these holes that are

         2          going to be dug and refilled are going to be

         3          on the islands or not.  I would suggest that

         4          if indeed you're not going to dig holes on

         5          the islands, say so.  There's a difference in

         6          digging a hole 50 to 100-feet deep on these

         7          islands than digging it somewhere in some

         8          cotton field in North Mississippi.  You know

         9          that.  Put it in your regs.

        10               It's been discussed tonight about

        11          proposed Reg 7, and I'd like to read this

        12          quickly.  Geophysical exploration of mineral

        13          resources shall be conducted so that those

        14          activities do not, one, unreasonably

        15          interfere with or endanger operations under

        16          any lease.  What does that mean?  Two, cause

        17          significant harm or damage to aquatic life,

        18          cause pollution, create hazardous or unsafe

        19          conditions, unreasonably interfere with or

        20          harm other uses of the area, or disturb

        21          cultural resources.

        22               I say your regulations as proposed just

        23          put the oil and gas business out of business

        24          in offshore waters because they're guilty of

        25          everything you're saying they can't do.  Now,




                                                            133

         1          if you really mean that, you can't explore or

         2          produce oil and gas in the Mississippi

         3          waters.  If you don't mean that, go back and

         4          specify what you mean.

         5               Turning to Regulation 10B, which Dr.

         6          Cake discussed -- sorry.  He did not discuss

         7          it.  I'm discussing it for the first time.

         8          Why close shrimp season for two weeks before

         9          it begins and two weeks after it begins.  How

        10          about other kinds of activities out there?

        11          If you recognize the danger and the potential

        12          for harm to the shrimping industry, why don't

        13          you take a minute or take an hour or take a

        14          week or take a month and study just what else

        15          is going on out there other than shrimping?

        16               You shut it down for two weeks before it

        17          starts and two weeks after.  I submit there

        18          are all sorts of other activities that you

        19          can close it down for and should.  For

        20          example, how about migratory birds?  How

        21          about mammals, migratory and otherwise?  How

        22          about fish, migratory and otherwise?

        23               Have you stopped to look?  Have you

        24          stopped to study what goes on and when out

        25          there as you were doing this testing, not to




                                                            134

         1          mention what you do when you start really

         2          exploring out there?  You haven't specified.

         3          You haven't balanced.  And that really is at

         4          the center of my concern about these

         5          regulations, is they're not balanced in favor

         6          of protection.  They're balanced in favor of

         7          promoting the oil and gas industry in a place

         8          it should not be.

         9               Now, this whole conversation reminds me

        10          of past hearings we've had on this issue.  As

        11          a former member of the Mississippi Department

        12          of Environmental Quality, I remember one

        13          night some gentleman from Texas stood up

        14          saying what a good thing the offshore oil and

        15          gas industry was, that as a child he grew up

        16          swimming around and fishing around oil and

        17          gas reefs in Texas waters.  They were great

        18          for the economy.  They didn't hurt anybody.

        19               Another member in the audience seven or

        20          eight years ago stood up and said, I'd like

        21          to ask the gentleman from Texas why don't you

        22          have an oil rig in front of the Alamo.  The

        23          answer is obvious.  It doesn't belong there.

        24               The answer is obvious here, too.  Should

        25          it be here?  No.  It does not belong here.




                                                            135

         1          This is a national park.  These islands don't

         2          deserve, don't need, and will be forever,

         3          forever, changed very adversely so by all of

         4          the pollution that will come with it, and

         5          just the loss of the solitude.

         6               We all need an island to go to.  We all

         7          need a place to escape to.  We have that

         8          here.  Don't ruin it by seismic exploration

         9          or production or any other sort of activity

        10          of oil and gas rigs.  They can go elsewhere.

        11          You don't do that here.  You don't put an oil

        12          rig in front of the (inaudible) in Oxford.

        13          You don't put one in the middle of the

        14          Vicksburg Battlefield.  You shouldn't do

        15          that.  You shouldn't do that, and it should

        16          not be done here.

        17               And I could go on and on.  There are

        18          more reasons not to and some that haven't

        19          been announced tonight.  I would like to

        20          close by reading a very short quote.

        21          Defenders of the short sided man who end

        22          their greed and selfishness will, if

        23          permitted, rob our country of half of its

        24          charm by their reckless extermination of all

        25          useful and beautiful wild things sometimes




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         1          seek to champion them by saying that the game

         2          belongs to the people.  So it does, and not

         3          really to the people alive but to the unborn

         4          people.

         5               The greatest good for the greatest

         6          number applies to the number within the womb

         7          of time compared to which those now lie in

         8          form, but an insignificant fraction are due

         9          to the whole, including the unborn

        10          generations, restrain (inaudible) an

        11          unprincipled present-day minority from

        12          wasting the heritage of these unborn

        13          generations.  The movement for the

        14          conservation of wildlife and the movement for

        15          the conservations of all our natural

        16          resources are essentially democratic in

        17          spirit, purpose, and method.

        18               That, gentlemen, was Franklin -- excuse

        19          me -- Theodore Roosevelt, republican

        20          president of the United States of America,

        21          1916.  Those words then are more true now

        22          than we were today.  We have less precious

        23          resources to enjoy.  We are not protecting

        24          them by these regulations.  We are not

        25          protecting them by oil and gas.  We are




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         1          restoring them.  Thank you.

         2               MR. HAMILTON:  Due to time, we will have

         3          one final question, and that will be Tyrone

         4          Foreman.

         5               MR. FOREMAN:  I want to thank y'all for

         6          the opportunity to come speak.  I'm from New

         7          Orleans, Louisiana.  I'm originally from

         8          Lafayette.  I've heard about this.  I knew

         9          that you guys were going to get swamped with

        10          a lot of passion and discussion about this.

        11          And a lot of it is passion and not a lot of

        12          common sense to it.

        13               So being that I was raised in an oil

        14          field town -- as a matter of fact, my dad was

        15          co-owner of a drilling company, a very

        16          successful drilling company in Lafayette -- I

        17          thought I'd come down and share with you some

        18          of my experiences.

        19               By the age of 15 I worked in the plank

        20          yards making a dollar and a quarter an hour.

        21          At 17 I was roustabout, and by 18 I was up on

        22          the regs roughnecking.  I worked for Otis

        23          Engineering.  I've been inland.  I've been

        24          offshore.  I've seen it all.

        25               And gentlemen, let me just tell you




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         1          this:  You're making a drastic mistake here.

         2          I don't know how you can possibly come and

         3          ram this down these people's throats here.

         4          First of all, the barrier islands, the Gulf

         5          Islands National Seashore is a national

         6          treasure, not just what Mississippi decides

         7          to do it.  It belongs to all of Americans.

         8               And I think you have no right to come

         9          down here and try and ram this down these

        10          people's throat.  And the way in which

        11          y'all -- the manner in which you have done

        12          this is very, very shaky.  I want to just

        13          tell you, this presentation tonight was very,

        14          very, very weak.  The photograph of the

        15          supposed one mile away rig or platform with

        16          55-millimeter lens, gentlemen, Dr. Donald

        17          Bredburn, he's the pathologist at Touro

        18          University, Touro Hospital in New Orleans,

        19          I'm sure if you request he would go and get

        20          you some photos and you can use them for your

        21          slide presentations.

        22               Like I said, I've been on these rigs.

        23          This stuff about zero-percent discharge in

        24          the offshore drilling platforms, gentlemen,

        25          back in college I smoked a little bit.  I




                                                            139

         1          don't know what y'all have been smoking, but

         2          I'm going to recommend y'all straighten up

         3          and fly right on that.

         4               Having a meeting on a Friday morning in

         5          Jackson on Memorial Day weekend, I mean, this

         6          just tells me that y'all are scared to give

         7          the people a chance to speak.  The gentleman

         8          from Tidewater Marine who made his living and

         9          his fortune working this industry came up

        10          tonight and told you exactly what you need to

        11          hear.  You have no idea what kind of courage

        12          it takes for a man of his age, and I applaud

        13          that gentleman.  I don't know him personally,

        14          but I think it takes a lot of courage.

        15               He told you that he's seen it all.  I

        16          know what he's seen, he's telling you the

        17          truth.  His comments have to be looked at

        18          closely.  There is no such thing as safe

        19          drilling operations.  It's not a matter of

        20          if.  It's a matter of when.  You're playing

        21          Russian roulette with a national treasure,

        22          and I think there might be more than one

        23          bullet in the gun.

        24               A gentleman also from New Orleans who

        25          has kayaked out to the islands for 30 years,




                                                            140

         1          his name is Byron (inaudible) could not come

         2          tonight.  He gave me a letter to present.  I

         3          was going to read it.  Everyone has been here

         4          so long I'm not going to go through that.

         5               I just want to tell you he runs Canoe

         6          and Trail Adventures.  He's kayaked out here

         7          all the way back to 30 years to the island.

         8          He now does a trip for the past 20 years

         9          every New Year's Eve, which I try to make as

        10          many as possible.  We spend four days and

        11          three nights on the islands and New Year's

        12          out there.  And it's a very special occasion.

        13               I want to tell you, one time we had a

        14          terrific storm come through.  It blew all of

        15          our tents down, but right after the storm was

        16          the most amazing thing.  You walked across

        17          the island, and you thought the earth had

        18          just been created it was so pristine.

        19               I looked up at slashed pine that was

        20          soaked.  And I later on got a Walter Anderson

        21          journal and logs, and he has a drawing in

        22          there of a slashed pine soaked after a

        23          rainstorm.  It was identical.  It was a

        24          life-changing event.

        25               You know, it isn't fair for you to try




                                                            141

         1          and do this right now.  The children that

         2          aren't here today -- I don't know how you can

         3          destroy something that your grandchildren may

         4          never get a chance to see.  I think y'all

         5          should be rethinking in terms of future

         6          generations.

         7               On that thought, I am requesting an EIS

         8          study be done.  Before the EIS study should

         9          be done and coordinated with local -- local

        10          public hearings where the public gets to

        11          raise issues and be addressed.  This is a

        12          national treasure.  It's not something to be

        13          treated lightly.  So I am requesting an EIS

        14          statement be done thoroughly.

        15               Also I want to go over it with the

        16          gentlemen from New Orleans.  Basically what

        17          he said is he is opposing oil and gas

        18          exploration.  And he said -- goes on to say

        19          that he's been coming here for 30 years to

        20          Horn Island.  Each year he brings a group of

        21          people out there, 20 or 30 people.  He's been

        22          doing that for 20 plus years.  They spend a

        23          certain amount of money.  Some people stay

        24          the day before or the night after at local

        25          hotels.  They go out to eat when we get back.




                                                            142

         1          We spend our money here.

         2               He's saying that if the wilderness

         3          character of Horn Island is compromised by

         4          energy exploration/extraction, the island

         5          will no longer have as much appeal.  Why go

         6          somewhere, quote, to get away only to be

         7          visually or physically distracted by litter

         8          along the shore or by lights illuminating in

         9          the horizon?

        10               There may or may not be platforms

        11          visible, but they will be requiring servicing

        12          by crew boats and helicopters on a 24-hour

        13          basis.  I would not find Horn Island as

        14          appealing and others also would not.  I would

        15          no longer schedule this New Year's outing

        16          which then would mean a lot of tourist income

        17          to Mississippi.

        18               And I think you're going to hear that

        19          theme reiterated time and time again.  What

        20          you have here is something very special, a

        21          lifestyle, a character of life.  You have the

        22          national seashore.  By going out there with

        23          drills -- believe me, I come from the oil

        24          field -- you're going to destroy something

        25          very, very special.




                                                            143

         1               Byron asked me to turn this over to

         2          Louis Skrmetta, and then he asked if he in

         3          turn would enter it into the record.  I want

         4          to thank you very much, but most of all I

         5          want to tell everyone here that it's a real

         6          honor to share this time with you.  I see

         7          people who really, really care about their

         8          environment, about their lifestyle, and about

         9          their Coast.

        10               I just want to tell you one thing.

        11          Passion is the key.  So stay organized, and

        12          get mad and stay mad.  Y'all are doing a

        13          great job.

        14               AUDIENCE:  As one of the first people to

        15          sign a list to be a registered speaker, and

        16          you have not yet gotten to me, I would like

        17          you to have the record reflect that there are

        18          other speakers who are present you have cut

        19          off comments from.  I would further like to

        20          have a general number of those.

        21               MR. HAMILTON:  There were three.

        22               AUDIENCE:  No.  My name is on there.

        23               MR. HAMILTON:  There were three.  And

        24          I'm insulted that I don't get to speak.  I

        25          begged for this meeting.




                                                            144

         1               AUDIENCE:  Let us speak.

         2               MR. HAMILTON:  You're welcome to speak,

         3          but we are -- this is the time that we had

         4          this building for.

         5               AUDIENCE:  We've sat here for hours.

         6          We've waited for weeks for y'all to come to

         7          let us have our say.

         8               Where do you have to go?  Do you have

         9          someplace to go?

        10               MR. HAMILTON:  The building has asked,

        11          and we're closing at 10:00.

        12                           - - -

        13             (Hearing concluded at 10:18 p.m.)

        14

        15

        16

        17

        18

        19

        20

        21

        22

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        25




                                                            145

         1                CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER

         2          I, NATALIE R. SEYMOUR, Court Reporter and

         3     Notary Public, in and for the County of Harrison,

         4     State of Mississippi, hereby certify that the

         5     foregoing pages, and including this page, contain a

         6     true and correct transcript of the testimony of the

         7     witness, as taken by me at the time and place

         8     heretofore stated, and later reduced to typewritten

         9     form by computer-aided transcription under my

        10     supervision, to the best of my skill and ability.

        11          I further certify that I placed the witness

        12     under oath to truthfully answer all questions in

        13     this matter under the authority vested in me by the

        14     State of Mississippi.

        15          I further certify that I am not in the employ

        16     of, or related to, any counsel or party in this

        17     matter, and have no interest, monetary or

        18     otherwise, in the final outcome of the proceedings.

        19          Witness my signature and seal, this the

        20     ________ day of ______________________, 2005.

        21

        22

        23                     _____________________________
                               Natalie R. Seymour, CSR #1637
        24                     My commission expires 5/21/06.

        25