Surnames

Prologue, or "Why I think the simple stories matter"

For some pictures of my ancestors click here

I am probably first and foremost thoroughly indebted to my Nana, Aileen (GROAT) BRADLEY for putting this bug in my ear when I was twelve - thanks Nana! - and to my parents and their parents for sharing and telling the stories of the Every person in all of us - lives needn't be about "Kings and Queens" in order to be great family histories. And remembering people as full persons, with warts and all, breathes real life back into their spirits, and honors them, for the full, usually imperfect people we all are rather than sanitizing us into some kind of abstraction of people who live, breathe, make mistakes, learn, sometimes don't and then shuffle off our mortal coils. Life is an imperfect and messy business - our histories should reflect, even revel, in that messiness rather than ignore or hide it.

A big thanks also to my clan of GROAT family researchers who over the past years have helped me: Don D., Mary P, Mary R., Mary V.B., Rick G., Kevin S., Nancy L., Gary G., Pam O., David E. and from the COUSINS family gang Tara S., Linda P., and Gaye A., and from the TIMLECKs, especially Ivan C., and so many others who have shared info from far and beyond, and have become my friends - not just my "cousins" - it's truly made me more than I could have been without you all.

THANK-YOU! and... Enjoy!

PS - to contact me email me at jtimleck_awt_mac_dawt_calm (use your imagination and you'll "see" the address)

Andrew Timleck, previously of Georgetown, ON, Canada, now of Baltimore, MD, USA

Revision history: v1.0 March, 2007; v2.0 June 2008; v3.0 March 2009; v3.5 July 2009

In this genealogy you will find many of my progenitors. I've come to understand myself in ways I could not have before I began this journey six years ago. Whether one wants to say one is "Canadian" or "American" or "Irish" becomes somewhat of a moot point in the end. From my ancestors from the British Isles that settled in early Nova Scotia, to the predominantly German/Dutch Palatine immigrants of the New York state's Hudson Valley - many of whom, though born on the soil of what would later become the United States, later transplanted themselves as UELs - United Empire Loyalists , I find myself more than just a little bit of a "mutt" in the end. But the importance lies in giving voice to the past, sometimes silenced, oft forgotten stories, toils, and sometimes less than stellar acts of "ordinary folk". I do not espouse to be descended from Charlemagne but at the same time find guilty pleasure in see a marriage relationship that connects me to President Barak Obama (see below). I am human in my desire for recognition, but that is not the motivation for this tree, either.

Unlike many genealogies I've tried to keep it as cogent and fluid as possible. It branches, admittedly twisting around in sometimes in contorted convolutions (convulsions?), but it connects the numerous relations of "everyday people" into one large web of affiliations. Indeed, across two hundred years and thousands of miles of space and travel, happy times and misfortunes I've discovered my parents themselves are 7th and 8th cousins to one another (hold the jokes, heard them already, lol - see below).

There are gaps here. But if you find one, or an island of individuals of a family, it's because this family is probably connected to some group but I've not been able to place them correctly yet. Maybe you can help?

The focus on the GROAT, GRADT, GRATT, GROUT Family

First, I am not "dissing" my father's side of the family, but anyone who does genealogy will tell you that it's "the hunt" that is the thrill. Brick walls (points where you supposedly can go back no further) are to be banished. "That document" that will tell your family's story is just waiting to be found. The answer is out there - we just haven't looked the right place. And so we work, some times peripherally to fill in "around" a story, a family line, which brings us, quite literally, "Home". However, much of my father's side of the research question was literally handed to me in a book - already done, sourced and completed. But then who was this "Caleb GROAT" my great great great great great grandfather? Was he a Scotsman? Part Indian? All these were stories I'd heard in my life about him. And this in turn lead to a unique collaboration which has blossomed into some of the best friendships of my lifetime as I discovered I descended from one of seven brothers of one person and gradually we found persons researching each of those seven brothers along the way.

Henry GROAT, b.c. 1743 - son of Gabriel GROAT married Abial PRESTON daughter of David PRESTON & Sibbel UNKNOWN?

The brothers all descend from one Henry GROAT, b.c. 1743 of New York state, in the Hudson Valley. He was apparently, by some accounts (Lois Russell, personal correspondence) a logger on the Hudson with one Nicholas AUSTIN (the Quaker, settles also in Missisquoi Co., QUE) and floated logs up the river, towards Montreal, undoubtedly for shipment back to Britain. But save a land deed and the brief mention here and there in older land patentee documents of the 1790s and early 1800s there has been little more known about him. He was a "loyalist" we know as he and other GROUTs (sic) signed their Oath of Allegiance to the King, following the American Revolution, in the Oath at Missisquoi. Still more information on the GROATs as Loyalists can be found by clicking this link: GROAT family as United Empire Loyalists . There were one of many who had patents in the newly formed Eastern Townships. Click this following link to see some of the transcriptions I've done of some 700 other co-grantees in the early townships, Eastern Townships maps, images and more).

Henry GROAT - Commission to Prevent Conspiracies - Index - showing possible relationship to Gabriel GROAT/GRADT/GRAAT Beyond this information to date we were all pretty much "stuck" in finding out where Henry GROAT was from in New York. However, in just this past two weeks (March, 2009), more and more pieces have come to fall into place. We found a Henry GROAT mentioned in the Commissioner for Conspiracies that was perhaps the son of one Gabriel GROAT (also Gabriel GRADT, or GRAAT) or certainly likely his nephew. Gabriel, by my and other GROAT researchers, had a son Henrich that remained "lost" to further research, but born around 1743 - certainly in keeping with our understandings of our Henry as born in that time frame. During these hearings Henry notes his residence as being "of Cambridge, Washington Co., NY". Gabriel, who was also tried by the Commission, noted his home to be White Creek, Washington Co., NY. - just a short 8 miles from Cambridge. Later, in 1787, in the list of Loyalist claimants from New York, we find the claim of one Henry GROUT, of White Creek, Albany Co (Peter Coldham, American Migrations: 1765-1799, 2000, pg 246). We'd now confirmed a Henry GROUT as loyalist from New York - all other GROATs in NY State we're, to our knowledge until now, "patriots". But is this out Henry GROAT?

Partial list of Colonel PETERS enlistees for the Battle of Bennington, raised in Washington Co. and area, August of 1777 Tantalizing evidence arrived that suggested "Yes", this was "our Henry"... We found stories of one "Ensign Henry GROAT" mentioned as being in the militia with a David PRESTON and one Jabez MOSHER Sr, and Jabez MOSHER Jr., all of the Cambridge, Washington Co., NY area. When looking at military records it became confusing however because many noted that Jabez MOSHER Sr. and his son Jabez MOSHER Jr. were patriots. So what was Henry GROAT doing with them? Well, further researcher discovered that in fact Jabez Sr. and Jr., and David PRESTON appear in enlistment documents in the late summer of 1777 - just before the Battle of Bennington (see image to left - lists Jabesh (sic) MOSHER, David and Levy (sic, Levi) PRESTON, and near the bottom, Henry GROUT Jr. - NB - this Henry might not be our Henry but instead a son, or Henry isn't the son of Gabriel...stay tuned as we work on that one). BURGOYNE had instructed Col. PETERS to raise militia and he did so, locally. And in some cases it was clearly by threat. In other cases the choice to join the British force was perhaps one of practical self-interest and preservation of property etc. Regardless of why the existence of such "sunshine loyalists" (Peter Coldham's phrase) is well documented.

David Preston's will showing Abial PRESTON as daughter

Henry GROAT/GROUT, in the militias above with David PRESTON further connected, and further cemented our suspicion, that this is our Henry GROAT when we discovered that David PRESTON had a daughter Abial PRESTON. This validates previous knowledge, that Henry married one Abiall GROAT, that we already had, via a land deed from St. Armand, Missisquoi Co., QUE, from early in the 1800s.

An interesting twist that connects even more of the pieces here was the discovery that 1757 founding of the Dover First Baptist Church in Wingdale, NY (Wingdale, Dover, Pawling, Salem and White Creek are all in the same local area) was done with the help of baptist minister William MARSH. William MARSH, Sr. Rev. - son of Thomas MARSH and Eunice PARKHURST of Plainfield, CT - was the uncle of William MARSH, Reverend (he the son of Jacob MARSH and Lydia FULLER). While William MARSH Sr. Rev. would soon after die in Wyoming, PA (killed by "Indians") William MARSH, Rev (later married Elizabeth HUNTINGTON) would go on to be very closely connected to the GROATs in Missisquoi Co. QUE, then migrating with/alongside them westward to Whitby, Ontario Co., ON, and his son Israel MARSH further west again, then, to Dorchester Twp. in Middlesex Co., ON, CANADA.

A final comment bears mention here about Henry possibly being "Henrich" son of Gabriel GROAT/GRADT/GRAAT. I had surprising fortune to stumble upon the still living Ben GROAT (Cyrus Benjamin GROAT) of Berrien Twp., MI, this past fall. Ben is my "great Uncle", if you will; he is also a descendant of Caleb GROAT. He and I shared stories about our understandings of the family and we came to one key point in it where I was told, quite emphatically, that the family name was pronounced GRAT or GRADT - not GROW-T, as many of us have come to do, seeing it and saying it phonetically. This absolutely then jives with the spelling of Gabriel GROAT's name which is alternately noted as Gabriel GRADT and Gabriel GRAAT.

So, all this to say, that at this point, I believe we are very close to determining that Henry GROAT/GROUT was the son of Gabriel, or if he was Henry Jr. then perhaps a nephew (I suspect however that there was a Henry Jr. and perhaps he was our Henry's son and died at Bennington perhaps) and that Abial PRESTON, known to be our Henry's wife, is indeed the daughter of David PRESTON and Sibbel UNKNOWN. It's hoped to discover if there are existing marriage documents in the White Creek area that could support this claim....Always one more lead to follow....

Who are all these GROAT, GROUT, GROWT, GROOT, de GROOT, etc. Families!!!

You will find some broken branches in these pages but many of the GROAT family name derivations are in fact different families which I and others have been researching to clarify what is what, who belongs to who, etc. Often names in earlier documents were phonetically recorded - there was no legal mandate requiring same spelling every time you were recorded - well into the 19th century. For example above we see the same Henry GROAT spelled variously as GROAT and GROUT, yet it was pronounced GRAAT. But Henry was illiterate as well (as were many persons "back then") and so variations in surnames are not always choices of that person, but perhaps of a court, a census taker etc. I've tried to figure out and use a given person's own most self-identifying moniker. However this name may end up in the notes files at the bottom of each individual.

Below are the most common GROAT, GROUT, GROOT etc. family name groups I've worked on as a briefing of which is which, who is who:

The English GROUTs of Massachusetts

While the GROAT family has many derivations (including GROUT in some cases in Canada and later in the U.S. Midwest), most GROUTs here are of NEW ENGLAND as descendants of John GROUT b. 1615 and Sarah BUSBY of Sudbury, MA, NEW ENGLAND. They are included here because that line is often confused with our GROATs and this is an easy way to have them "all in one place" for checking facts/persons/places. The GROATs and the GROUTs are in fact connected via marriage with the HINMAN family, however through distant 5th cousins, once removed. The descendants of the GROUTs are Loyalists as well, settling first in Montreal, then the Ottawa Valley and points west.

The Palatine GROATs of the Province of New York, New York State

In June of 2008 I wrote in these pages:

No definitive link has been found yet between the New York GROATs which fought for the U.S. in the revolution (of Ulster and Greene, Columbia, Dutchess counties, and later West U.S.) and those later American-born but expulsed in the late 1790s, thus immigrants, to CANADA as our GROAT UELs (United Empire Loyalists) . But there continue to be tantalizing clues - faiths, past histories, ethnicities all point toward a connection - especially with both clans sharing relations to the SHUFELT family (see Ann Griffee's work with important corrections) and their co-location in the same UEL towns of the Eastern Townships of Quebec (see the Eastern Townships Research Center, Pam WOODS WAUGH's great pages and Marlene SIMMONS' work, as a researcher). More research on this remains to be done. None-the-less many of the New York GROATs are included here again for "fact checking" in the mean time. This was/is a particularly prolific family and hardly complete - I welcome your additions and corrections but I must mention thanks to James D. GROAT, Jr and his site "The Long GROAT Line" for his permission to use his information in my tree.

I must now cautiously suggest that this connection has now been made. If Henry GROAT turns out to be the son of Gabriel GROAT then he, who settled in Pigeon Hill, Missisquoi Co., QUE, would have lived right beside those SHUFELT-GROAT couples who also settled in Pigeon Hill, Missisquoi Co., QUE. This is perhaps the most provocative suggestion that Henry GROAT is son of Gabriel GROAT, but it is not evidence - it stretches circumstance - though not very far. In the coming months we'll certainly be revisiting this connection more carefully. Look too at connections of the TITTEMORE family (DITERMORE, TITEMORE etc) that marries into the SHUFELT family of this same location. Their father, George TITEMORE is noted as the first settler of Pigeon Hill in 1788, and that Henry GROAT arrives soon after. (Cyrus Thomas, Contributions to the History of the Eastern Townships, 1866, pg 41-43)

The Indigenous GROATs of Brant Twp., ON, CANADA

The GROATs of Tuscarora/Brant Ontario are also included in this research as I investigate linkages- they became GROATs somehow....but through whom? ANY additional information on these lines would be appreciated. Given the connection of indigenous people's in the French-Indian War, the American Revolution and UELs the link is likely to be found one day between this clan and others. What is interesting of late is the possible connection of Gabriel GROAT's line to the GREISLER/CRYSLER family into which the GROATs of Tuscarora marry in the early 19th century. It seems possible that the "Blue Eyed Indians", as some of this family were known, in fact became the reason some GROATs became known as indigenous in the first place. More research to follow.

Intercontinental Link? Symon Symonse GROAT/GROOT who become GROATs... the De GROOTs of Early NJ?

It is an open controversy as to original progenitors of our GROAT line but they point toward connection with Dutch GROOT families, also of Palatine descent - possibly one Symon Symonse GROOT b. c. 1620, Netherlands, settled Schenectady, NY (not included in this tree because it is not substantiated yet). He married Rebecca DU TRIEUX - her other descendants become the TRUAX family, with whom we share many other connections as Baptists, immigrants, cousins etc. See Jennifer Smith's Genealogy Page for more. However, after extensive research (a special thanks to Don Teeple and Betty Fink here) this connection doesn't bear out. The GROOT family do become GROATs in some cases, mostly of the Cranesville, NY area, Schenectady Co, NY but they tend to remain patriots. But their connections (and even abductions) to Canada link them still and so cannot be entirely rejected either. Furthermore, calling one Palatinate group German, another Dutch, another English and still another Scottish is compatible with their migrations - as they tended to voyage through each of these countries often on their way to the New World. Of the DE GROOTs... This family I've not done much research on at all. However their connection appears, at this time, to turn back to TRUAX and GROOT families noted above.

We're NOT GROATs of Scotland

I've stuck by on this side of the "argument" about our GROATs for sometime now. Over and over again researchers of this line erroneously state that our GROAT family are SCOTTISH. Stories of "John O'GROAT" are romantic, but they simply aren't substantiated. I'm willing to bend to "facts" - not stories. Perhaps the worst offender of this is the Latter Day Saints work that gives this information out as such. But, over and over again, we are brought back to Palatinate Baptist roots - not British Isles Presbyterians/Anglicans/Baptists (regardless of Palatine travel patterns I think, others disagree). Our own evidence places the GROATs in NY as early as the 1740s. Not in Scotland, as the LDS information suggests. For example, our Caleb GROAT, who was born abt, 1769 was born in probably born in NY or VT - not Scotland. But, looking at baptismal records of his supposed parents Malcolm GROAT and Gilles/Jilley BARNETT we see that Caleb was born on a date before these actually Scottish parents gave birth to/christened his then supposed GROAT siblings in abt. 1791 & 1794. It would be highly unlikely that Malcolm(Malcom) and Gilles/Jilley came to the New World, had a son in 1769, left him here, went back to Scotland, and had two more children, them only years apart, some twenty years after the birth of Caleb. There isn't any evidence to say that they ever did this trip either. I also recognize that my own family, when they lived in Chinguacousy Twp., Peel Co., ON, CANADA also called themselves "Scottish" in censuses of the 1880s - but I am convinced this is because of their mothers' lineages. (ROSS, WATSON, HENDERSON, etc.)

Now There are several GROATs of Scotland that arrive and migrate into Western Canada, namely the Edmonton, AL area, and some are included in this lineage for the same reasons noted above - namely to show they are not of our family.

My Parents - Kissing Cousins?!?

This one surprised me....if you look closely you will discover that my 6th Great Grandmother, Mary Sarah BRISBIN, on my father's side, is the sister to my 5th Great Grandfather, Robert BRISBIN, on my mother's side! Some how, against all odds, a Revolution, massive social changes, migrations of separate families, two World Wars and so much more they both found themselves in a small town in Ontario, CANADA, fell in love and had us children - and they never knew until last year about this. What are the odds? It has taught me much about myself and my kin on both sides of the border - how we are interestingly the same and yet uniquely different to this day.

Barak Obama and I Are Related

Now it's easy to get excited about this... but one is related to DICK Cheney as well then... Win some, lose some....

President Barak Obama and I are related

Referencing and Sources for this Work

I am, like so many others absolutely indebted to others, my friends, fellow researchers, family etc. for their help and support - THANK-YOU! And so have also been as careful as possible to credit and document my trail of resources and helpers so you too can follow it as well, to test its validity. One's family tree is only as good as one's sources and so I have been meticulous as possible in that verification process where it mattered most to me (One cannot possibly document all people to the same degree or veracity but where possible I have included reasonable references). In some cases your will find "poss.", "prob." as possibly and probably to denote "breadcrumbs" for later exploration and research. It's better to note where someone was from likely than to ignore it entirely. The trail has been difficult to put together at times and I welcome your feedback, a healthy dose of skepticism and, always, your corrections!

Note: references listed as SURNAME_YEAR.ged, SURNAME_YEAR_LDS_ANF, SURNAME_YEAR_LDS_IGI came from familysearch.org (The LDS) as Census records, Ancestral Files, or International Genealogical Index/Pedigree files - so you can trace back to there for those sources. The "WFT" designation is used in some date ranges because it denotes a certain amount of “wiggle room” in the understanding of what that date could be. Rather than permitting a program to guess when a person ought to have lived and died these are reasonable guesses to help us sort through people - especially female spouses. So, if the dates aren’t referenced and are a wide range apart then assume perhaps that the 'WFT' designation applied in the original data - you can email me and check of course.