70a-71d Scene setting and character development. We meet Socrates and Meno, also Gorgias and (these last two are characters of a sort): Thessaly and Athens. Meno’s question: is virtue teachable. Socrates: first we’d better find out what it is. Meno: Gorgias knows. Socrates: Well, then. . . what does he know?

MENO: Can you tell me, Socrates, is virtue the sort of thing you can teach someone? Or is it the sort of thing no one can teach you, but you pick it up by practicing it? Or maybe it’s neither: virtue is something people are born with, or something they get some other way?

SOCRATES: Thessalians used to have a good reputation among Greeks, Meno – for being such good riders and for being so rich; now, it seems, they are famous for wisdom, particularly your friend and fellow citizen, Aristippus of Larissa. The credit goes to Gorgias, for when he moved to your city the leading Aleuadae – your lover Aristippus among them – fell in love with his wisdom, and so did the other leading Thessalians. Specifically, he got all of you into the habit of giving sweeping and confident answers to any questions put to you – as if you were all experts. In fact, he himself was always ready to answer any question put by any Greek; all questions answered. On the other hand, here in Athens, my dear Meno, the opposite is the case. Here it’s as though there were a wisdom drought; it has all drained away to where you come from. So if you want to put this sort of question to one of us, everyone will have a good laugh and say to you: ‘Good stranger, you must think I am a lucky man, to know whether virtue can be taught or not, or where it comes from. Me, I’m so far from knowing whether virtue can be taught or not that I don’t even know what it is.’ I’m just as badly off as all my fellow citizens in this regard, Meno, and I blame no one but myself for my utter ignorance about virtue. For if I don’t know what something is, how could I know what it’s like? Unless you think someone who has no idea who Meno is could know whether he is handsome or rich or a real gentleman, or just the opposite? Do you think that would be posible?

M: I don’t; but, Socrates, you really don’t know what virtue is? Should I say this about you to everyone back home?

S: Not only that, my friend. Tell everyone back home that I think I have never yet met anyone who did know.

M: What? Didn’t you meet Gorgias when he was here?

S: I did.

M: Didn’t you think then that he knew?

S: My memory is not so good, Meno, so I cannot tell you now what I thought then. Maybe he knows; you know what he used to say, so you remind me of how he spoke. You tell me yourself, if you will be so kind, for I’m sure you agree with everything he says.

M: I do.

S: Then let’s leave Gorgias out of it, since he’s not here right now. Meno, by the gods, what do you yourself say virtue is? Speak up and don’t be a wisdom miser. For it would be a very lucky thing if I turned out not to have told the truth when I said I never met a man who knew, if I find out you and Gorgias know.

back to Meno mainpage

back to Plato mainpage

text ©J. Holbo & B. Waring 2002; site design and images ©J. Holbo 2003