(8a-9d) Euthyphro: no one denies that unjust killings must be punished. Socrates: but there is disagreement about what counts as 'unjust'. How does Euthyphro know what the gods will make of his particular case? And, again: what is the definition of ‘holiness’. Will it be: ‘what all the gods love’?

S: So you didn’t answer my question, you man of mystery. I did not ask you what one thing is both holy and unholy, but it appears what is loved by the gods is also hated by them. So it won’t be too surprising if the thing you now undertake – namely, punishing your father – is pleasing Zeus but displeasing to Kronos and Ouranos; is pleasing to Hephaestus but displeasing to Hera; and the same goes for any other gods who may care to take up the matter.

E: I think, Socrates, that here we have something no god would dispute: whoever kills anyone unjustly must pay the penalty.

S: Well now, Euthyphro, have you ever heard any man arguing that one who has murdered or otherwise acted unjustly should not pay the penalty?

E: There are endless disputes about this sort of thing, both in and out of the courts, because wrongdoers will say and do anything to avoid getting punished.

S: Do they admit they have done wrong, Euthyphro, but maintain that, even so, they should not be punished?

E: No, they don’t admit it.

S: So then they don’t say or do just anything. For they don’t go so far as to admit this, nor do they go so far as to deny they should pay the penalty if they did wrong. But I think they do deny wrong-doing, don’t they?

E: That’s how it is.

S: Then they don’t dispute that wrongdoers must be punished, only who did wrong, what they did, and when.

E: You are right.

S: Don’t the gods have the same experience – if indeed they are at odds about justice and injustice, as your argument maintains? Some say that they wrong one another, while others deny it; but none among gods or men goes so far as to say a wrongdoer should not be punished

E: Yes, that is basically true, Socrates.

S: So parties to a given dispute, whether gods or men, dispute about a given action – if in fact the gods ever dispute. Some say the thing was done justly, some unjustly. Isn’t that how it goes?

E: Yes, indeed.

S: Come now, dear Euthyphro; tell me, that I may be the wiser for it, what proof you can offer that all gods deem this man unjustly killed – this servant-turned-murderer, bound by the master of his victim, who died in bondage before his captor learned from the seers what was to be done – and that all gods consider it right for a son to denounce and prosecute a father on behalf of such a one? Come, show me, if you can, a clear sign that all the gods definitely believe this action to be right. If you can produce an adequate proof of this I will sing praises of your wisdom forevermore.

E: This is maybe not so easily done, Socrates – though I could show you very clearly.

S: I quite understand that you think I’m dull-witted compared to the jury, since obviously you are going to show them that these actions were unjust and hated by all the gods.

E; I will show them clearly, Socrates – if only they will listen to me.

S: They will listen so long as you seem to speak well. But something occurred to me while you were talking – a thought I am even now turning over in my mind: ‘Suppose Euthyphro does show me conclusively that all the gods consider such a death unjust. To what extent will he thereby have taught me the nature of holiness and unholiness? That such a deed is hated by all the gods – so much would seem to follow; but a definition of holiness and unholiness does not. For what is hated by the gods has also been shown to be loved by them.’ So I won’t keep pressing the point. Let us grant, if you like, that all gods consider this thing unjust and hate it. Is this, then, the only amendment we wish to make to our account – namely, that what all gods hate is unholy, whereas what they all love is holy; that what some gods love and some hate is both or neither? Is this how we now wish to define holy and unholy?

E: Is anything stopping us, Socrates?

S: Not as far as I’m concerned, Euthyphro, but consider your own position – see whether this proposal will pave the way to the instruction you promised me.

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