Transcript of Dec. 9 Second Life Roundtable Discussion.
Location: Montclair State Virtual Campus
Topic: Open Topic
Iggy's Note: AJ Brooks was out sick today, so I convened the group. I've combined remarks for clarity and eliminated many personal remarks for yes/no replies unless they clarify a remark. I've also added links to URLs in the transcript (all will open in new tabs or windows).
Links mentioned in our discussion:
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: A few announcements, before we get started.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This is a public meeting, and we keep transcripts of the chat. Past meeting chat transcripts can be found in The HUGE Bldg, just outside the Amphitheater to the right. Enter through the entrance that runs along the canal and make a right.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-)
Zotarah Shepherd: Since I am a student I am busy with writing final papers
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: On the side wall, here inside the Amphitheater, there is a notecard giver with information on the D.I.D.I program. Click the sign to grab a notecard and "Learn how you can receive up to $1000 USD seed funding for social entrepreneurial ventures with the Dream It. Do It. Initiative in Second Life!"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: On the other wall is a black circle, which is also a notegiver. The notecard is a Call For Papers for the Journal of Virtual Worlds Research, the theme of the special issue is Pedagogy, Education and Innovation in Virtual Worlds.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This SL Education Roundtable meeting happens each week, but we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas. Please join the SL EDUCATION ROUNDTABLE group. If you have problems finding it in search, IM me and I will send you an invite sometime after this meeting but before I log for the night.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: As the group grows, there will be announcements and such that will be exclusive to the group. I'm also open for ideas of what can bring value to the group.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Lastly, there is a program running here on the CHSSSouth island called the CHSSSouth Free Land Initiative. Details can be found in the two notegivers at the base of the outside stairs leading up to this amphitheater. Please wander around the island - tonight after the meeting or come back any time. we're currently up to 20 different educational community members.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Aside from this island, and the land initiative, we also have two other educational islands adjoining to the north. There are also numerous learning areas on these adjoining islands, Montclair State CHSS and Montclair State CEHSADP. Wander around and enjoy.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We'll start our meeting as we usually do. Please introduce yourself. Tell us who you are, where you are from, and what you do.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: whew!
Profdan Netizen: I'm Dan Holt, a professor at Lansing Community College. I teach fy comp, creative writing and an occasional film class. I've been teaching online 11 years, just now exploring SL to use in online classes.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Okay, I'm Joe Essid, University of Richmond-Writing Center Director
Eneias Pessoa: Eneias Pessoa (RL Virgilio A. P. Machado) is a Professor of Industrial Engineering at the Faculdade de Ciencias e Tecnologia of the Universidade Nova de Lisboa, Portugal.
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: RubyTuesday is Donna Murphy, Prof of Specia Education at Edinboro U of PA.
Margaret Michalski: I'm Margaret, University of Illinois at Chicago-Research Information Specialist
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Folks...is that everyone?
Elka Lemon: I am Elka, an e-learning consultant and developer
Zotarah Shepherd: I was doing a SL Education Roundtable Group IM Ruby in case people wanted a TP here.
Oronoque Westland: Hi, I'm Roberta Kilkenny. I teach Caribbean politics and history at Hunter College in New York
Zotarah Shepherd: Hi I am a MA in Education (technology and psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working an a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life-Skills in Second Life. I plan to buy an island of Immersive Interactive Educational builds about Life-skills for teachers and parents.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: excellent...anyone else?
Skagen Vita: Hi. I am from Poland, just PhD student :)
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Every time we do this, I'm fascinated by the diversity. I'd love to talk to each of you...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Skagen is also a class mentor for my students helping with building projects :D
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: "Just" a PhD student???? Honey, many of us have been there--it's no "just"...
Zotarah Shepherd: As of now I have had 844 visitors to my MI education build on Koru.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: WOW
Oronoque Westland: the multiple learning exhibit?
Zotarah Shepherd: After I survive getting a MA I want to go for a PhD.
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: BTW, if you IM me, I'll get to you but it may be slow...
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Go for it!!!!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Margaret mentioned discussing partnerships between institutions
Zotarah Shepherd: You can IM me Ruby. Glad to talk.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: which is something AJ an I have explored, but not yet between students
Zotarah Shepherd: err after the meeting.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Has anyone done partnerships yet? If so, how so?
Oronoque Westland: between students at different institutions?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Margaret, were you thinking of ones like that?
Margaret Michalski: My institution is in search of partnerships both within the US and internationally.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Or between faculty and administrators?
Profdan Netizen: Are we talking about within SL? Or more broadly?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good Q, Profdan
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: in my case, I'm thinking of w/in SL--for language learning, for instance
Margaret Michalski: We are looking for both but I think that SL needs more promotion at my insitution
Margaret Michalski: nobody seems to understand the value
Eneias Pessoa: I have anything but good things to say about partnerships between people from different institutions
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: really? why is that?
Profdan Netizen: Seems to me the financial benefit of using SL for partnerships, compared to RL, would be significant.
Eneias Pessoa: As for partnerships between institutions I thing there are great examples in SL
Margaret Michalski: Not have to be in one location is always a plus.
Profdan Netizen: Upper administration always perks up if you can save them money.
Oronoque Westland: /I am hoping to make contact with students in the Caribbean and in Africa, either formally or informally...so much can be gained by linking my students in NY with their peers in the societies they are studying...and for so little money using SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: especially nowadays--budgets are tight or shrinking
Elka Lemon: The benefits of learning different cultures is one thing I can think off as well
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: I think that's a wonderful initiative, Orono!
Oronoque Westland: /one of my administrators perked up when I told him that I had attended professional conferences in-world
Elka Lemon: do students in Africa have access to SL?
Eneias Pessoa: But I'm not involved in my institution presence in SL, which I doubt it even exists
Oronoque Westland: for ZERO dollars
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I was wondering how we might get students to partner on, say, projects that involve building
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: ah--the bottom line...
Oronoque Westland: I chatted with someone from a South African NGO over the weekend
Elka Lemon: oronoque, in SL I presume?
Oronoque Westland: she is involved with ICT in the schools in her country
Oronoque Westland: yes, in SL
Elka Lemon: Great!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we use our Tech Learning Center helpers now to help build on our island...imagine international collaborations to make space for educational projects
Margaret Michalski: I think class projects is a great way to start partnerships.
Oronoque Westland: she has a project to bring more South Africans in-world
Oronoque Westland: as well as more African content into SL
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: I've been struggling to find the best way to use SL to enhance the programs of our special education teachers-to-be. I'd love to arrange somecollaborations between them and similar students from other cultures
Elka Lemon: Many other African countries need computer first I presume, a friend of mine just came from Togo and it's not good with regard to amount of available computers
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Ruby, that's a very powerful example of the type of partnership that could work well at low cost
Oronoque Westland: this is true
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Not only computers--to use SL, you need high-end graphics...
Elka Lemon: Yes, indeed
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: I agree, Iggy--and I hadn't even considered it until tonight
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This might be, Elka, were SL could work...the Linux OS is more common outside the US on desktops
Oronoque Westland: I think when it comes to Africa the outreach may need to be teacher to teacher first
Elka Lemon: However, I am working with 512 Mb now :-)
Oronoque Westland: with those teachers who have access to PCs, hisgh speed connections, etc
Eneias Pessoa: One good example of partnership is the fact that together with my students (including one from Turkey and another from India) we are residents here at MCS CHSS South
Elka Lemon: Oh yes, teacher to teacher sounds goog
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: in Extramadura in Spain, they use Linux terminals for long-distance learning and even with veterinary programs
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I don't know the graphics reqs for Linux, but it might be a way to jumpstart SLers in areas where the PC or Mac clients are just above the capacity of the hardware they have
Elka Lemon: Is SL also available for Linux computers or not (is that what you are saying?)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: SL is the only virtual world I know of that has a Linux clieent
Elka Lemon: ah very good of SL then :-)
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: I had no idea SL interfaced with Linux...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes, bless their hearts
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and I think the processor and graphics are lower end than for PC...I'll get that URL now
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://secondlife.com/support/sysreqs.php
Profdan Netizen: Elka, how well does SL run with 512?
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Are we thanking the Lindens, again? I wonder if they are interested in encouraging collabs between western SL users and professionals (or professionals-to-be) in less developed countries...
Elka Lemon: Profdan, it goes reasonably ok, when there is a party with many people I crash however
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: For Linux, it's 800 Mhz Pentium, and a few NVIDIA or ATI cards...not to steep
Profdan Netizen: I tried with 1G and got frustrated.
Elka Lemon: :-) I have my graphic settings at a minimum however
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 1 GB is slow--bare minimum for RAM, Prospero Linden said at a recent Roundtable
Elka Lemon: A friend of mine has even 400 something and she never crashes, I don't know how she does it :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but remember--other clients are not so intensive...Imprudence and OpenLife are two I know
Profdan Netizen: She must have her draw distance at 3 feet!
Elka Lemon: Ignatius, are those virtual worlds like Second Life?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: No--clients
Elka Lemon: yeah maybe :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but OpenLife can connect you to other worlds
Elka Lemon: What do you mean by clients? OpenLife is a Linux client for SL?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Client = software to connect to SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: OpenLife client is for PC and Mac, for now...and those folks have their own world
Elka Lemon: How do I know what I am using?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If you got it from Linden Lab, it's their client
Profdan Netizen: http://openlifegrid.com/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it's also the most resource intensive, I think
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks Profdan
Elka Lemon: SL 1.20.17 sais the 'about' section
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Imprudence is at: http://imprudenceviewer.org/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and then Onrez--which is nearly has system intensive as LL's client at: http://www.onrez.com
Elka Lemon: I'd better not start those with my 512 :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyhow, options do exist for educators with older systems...
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: I wish I had the tiniest idea of what you techies are talking about...I'm in SL on a wing and a prayer...
Elka Lemon: The rest of the group is gone silent :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and we found that some "non supported" Windows machines will still run it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: too much geek speak :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: So let's see if others have more questions about collaborations
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Ruby, I'm and English prof (and geek) not a techie :P
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Well, my husband is an English prof, and he doesn't speak your language!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL I'll fix him right up :)
Elka Lemon: Ignatius, do you know the learning environment Global English? www.globalenglish.com which is for companies I think, but maybe for universities too
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Great. Find some way to tie that into Robert Frost--his specialty
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: something there is that does not like a video card (after "Mending Wall")
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Also, you musta taken the road not usually...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but back on topic....I wanted to bring up an issue that began last week
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and did not get finished
Elka Lemon: I just got a free demo account for that site to check it out, I improved my English and cultural knowledge along the way :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We had Pathfinder and Jimmy Linden here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and Jimmy asked if anyone had problems or concerns
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: about inventory loss
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that could be HUGE for educators
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: because sometimes, in a crash, you can lose inventory
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyone have that problem?
Elka Lemon: I didn't have that problem
Elka Lemon: Wow, were the Lindens here?
Oronoque Westland: we're special!
Zotarah Shepherd: yes
Elka Lemon: :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we bad :)
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: I haven't lost any inventory. However, I did lose ALL of my furnishings, which broke my heart. I now live in a shell of a house. Don't know if that was an SL problem or a problem on the island I rent
Oronoque Westland: not me, I'm good
Profdan Netizen: Prospero Linden often stops by, or at least has the few weeks I've been here.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 1970s colloquialism in US English "bad" = "cool"
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Thanks for spelling that our for us, Iggy
Oronoque Westland: I have lost some items that were on display...suspect some colleagues have sticky fingers (smile)
Elka Lemon: Thanks, learned some more English today :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I would think that losing inventory in mid-semester could be tragic for a student project
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: because so much cannot be backed up offline
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Yes--and terribly disheartening.
Oronoque Westland: now I am more careful to check perms before letting AVs inside
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: only any textures you create and upload
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: WOW...Oronoque, they stole your displays????
Oronoque Westland: I notice when LL is having system problems they warn us not to make purchases
Oronoque Westland: they stole two steel pans
Profdan Netizen: Certainly there are back up systems here in SL?
Oronoque Westland: or "stole"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Profdan--no
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: in fact in the Official Guide to SL
Oronoque Westland: that is not an inventory problem though
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: the Lindens suggest creating an alt avatar and given him/her copies of your inventory, as much as possible
Oronoque Westland: I suspect they were set to allow group members to move them or they may have been set for sale by accident
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: cool idea. I should follow up on that
Profdan Netizen: Interesting. Like living in the days of the double floppy drives.
Skagen Vita: some are using second inventory
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: there is only ONE system--Windows only :( --for backup on your hard drive
Profdan Netizen: So you can back up onto your hard drive?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that's it--Second Inventory (no help to this Mac user :( )
Oronoque Westland: also students should be encouraged to keep copies
Profdan Netizen: IF you have windows?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If you have Windows, you can buy a copy
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: How do you back-up if you have Windows??
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but it's something that I feel LL needs to address
Oronoque Westland: how do you backup inventory to your hard drive?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it's a Windows application that talks to SL
Profdan Netizen: Agreed, Iggy.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so you can back up your stuff on your hard disk
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I may buy it, put in on a PC in our Center, just in case....
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Do you have a link with directions?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll get it now...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://www.secondinventory.com/
Profdan Netizen: Are builds backed up?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Right now...only in-world if you do it yourself
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Cool. I'm assuming that will be in your wonderfully transcribed notes, so I won't bother to cut and paste
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that's why the Lindens recently told us about a bunch of old inventory had been found
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and they said "check your lost and found folder"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: problem is, sometimes lost inventory returns with the default name "object"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so I drag stuff to the ground before I empty the folder..just to check
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Oh, yah--and then you must sort through all those objects...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and rename them
Profdan Netizen: Wow, that could be really time intensive.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes, SL is
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: at times like that
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I recall that is "bleeding edge" and we get cut sometimes
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: There must be an easier way--if not, perhaps the Lindens can look into that.
Oronoque Westland: the price for secondinventory isn't too bad, thanks for the url
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: oh, yah--that was Steve's expression, on SLED
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you know, back to collaborations--if you build collaboratively
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: both teams should keep copies of items
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: to avoid inventory loss
Profdan Netizen: makes sense
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I tell students this constantly and...um...they forget :)
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: But that only applies to relevant builds. What about all of my CLOTHES, for example???
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes...my fake CAR!
Oronoque Westland: my fake hair
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: :D
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL exactly...the key stuff
Elka Lemon: :-) my absinthe drink and my cigarette :-)
Skagen Vita: with second inventory is the problem that it is seen as a source of stolen objects - last time I went to shop I got info that users of SI will be banned
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Skagen, that's a good point
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: because I have heard this..cannot get the source
Oronoque Westland: pint..point..if it's green what's the difference
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that one reason the Lindens do not want backup on our hard drives
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: is because we might figure out how to undo permissions on no-copy items
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and then resell them
Elka Lemon: resell what?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: For instance
Oronoque Westland: is the problem with lost inventory really solved by backing up to a hard drive?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my 2500L car
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I could recode itand then make is "Yes" for transfer and sell a copy in SL for, say, 1800
Skagen Vita: I have SI, but still learn how to use it - If I have textures bought I dont want to loose them - they thiefs will always find a way, anyway loosing my inventory would be a pain
Elka Lemon: And why is that a problem then?
Oronoque Westland: I thought the losses occured during transfers, and that sort of thing
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Losses can occur if you rez any item on the ground
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and you crash
Oronoque Westland: while you "take"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: happened to me at Burning Life--the big arts event
Elka Lemon: recoding is like steeling or so?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I borrowed an expensive dance HUD and it got lost
Margaret Michalski: Sometimes when I lose things from my inventory I find them in my trash.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: came back to me last week in lost and found--months later
Oronoque Westland: if it is lost when you rez then I assume it is not copiable
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: So content creators are not automatically keen on having us back up our inventories outside SL--that's my understanding
Oronoque Westland: so the second AV proposal does not solve it
Skagen Vita: yes last week there was info LL has got some inventory missing items back
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Let's sound off on this--how many of you would benefit from inventory backup for important stuff you use in teaching or learning with SL?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Me, for sure
Oronoque Westland: does second inventory let you back up things that you cannot copy?
Profdan Netizen: Definitely.
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Well, I've never lost it. but if the potential is there, then I'm all for backup
Profdan Netizen: You know, this could be one of the perks for premium accounts we talked about last week.
Imenja black: Unable to give inventory: 'No item named ''.'.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Oronoque, you'll have to check their site...don't know
Elka Lemon: not yet for learning purposes, but I hate to loose anything
Oronoque Westland: so it creates a copy of something that does not have copy permission?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Yes, it would be a great perk, Profdan--let's forward that to Jimmy and Pathfinder
Profdan Netizen: Esp if the back up was housed by LL.
Imenja black: Unable to give inventory: 'No item named ''.'.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: That's going to be a long-term issue if LL wants universities and business to invest here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we own our intellectual property according to their terms of service
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but we have no protection for it when the Lab's database crashes
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: hmmmm....Good point...
Oronoque Westland: from the website --- Second Inventory has a copyright protection system that allows you to duplicate the item only if you have the Copy/Mod/Transf permissions, or if you are the original creator of the content. This is useful also if you made an item and lost the full perms example, you can recreate it from a no perms copy.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I think this will be the basis of a court case eventually in the States
Profdan Netizen: But they should have redundant systems, back ups that will keep such from happening. This isn't new tech.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: No, but the database is HUGE, Profdan
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I've heard billions of items
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: constantly being updated
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: every item you own , every texture, has an entry
Profdan Netizen: True, but the cost of memory is very low.
Elka Lemon: But I gave away stuff quite often....
Profdan Netizen: A backup every night at least.
Oronoque Westland: redundant systems are important on the LL side, but our "best practice" of making copies is also important
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: the last number I heard was 18,000 servers to run the SL metaverse
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: think about that number
Elka Lemon: That's it's probably made by the creator for public use I presume?
Zotarah Shepherd: For some items I look for copiable, but for some transfer is more important. Some things I just do not buy unless it is what I am seeking. Sometimes I ask the creator to change the perms for me and some have.
Profdan Netizen: I wonder how many Google has?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: more I'm certain!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but I'm not a techie on this
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Ooooh-chutzpah, Z! I never would have thought to do that
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Before we break...other questions or issues to cover?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: any any suggestions for a topic next week? In case AJ is not here?
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: Question, Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If I don't hear from him soon, I'll put out a notice a few days ahead of the meeting
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: is the idea of multitasking a good enough topic to y'all?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we have to do it in SL...and it's not native to me as a 48-year-old geezer
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: speaking of multitasking :)
RubyTuesday Ballyhoo: I can't do it at all. I'm not sure if it's something that can be taught
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but we have to cope with it...any other suggestions for a topic?
Profdan Netizen: And maybe use it, Iggy?
Zotarah Shepherd: Well Iggy it has been an hour
Profdan Netizen: Like back channeling.
Elka Lemon: I had to subfacilitate a SL conference group and leading them to different presentations, it was very hard to keep everybody together and help them (multi-tasking a lot)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: okay then..thanks to everyone for coming tonight!