An
Interview with HoJo Kilda
I find myself sitting at the first-floor bar of the Eden Revue Club, where two (clothed, for now) dancers perform moves that, to be honest, would be the envy of a real-life performer.
feng Willis, Hojo's business partner and head builder on the Eden Revue Resort project, had given me a tour earlier. Some of the snapshots shown here come from our tour; feng showed me the club under construction as well as private rooms and some of the "toys" available to clients. For the purposes of this interview, I've kept sexual references mostly to readers' imaginations.
The dancers chat with me while I wait, ignoring the tip jars--I'm not cheap, but I might get who-knows-what done to me if I tip the dancers. I have an interview to do, after all. . .this is work.
Talking to HoJo takes a reporter into a world at once unfamiliar and, at the same time, remarkably"lifelike." Clearly, HoJo is more creative and, given my limited time in-world, daring that some other sex-entrepreneurs in SL. Enough time in SL shows what the mainstream sex-trade means: boring and explicit billboards and flashing signs fill up much territory in Mature-zoned shopping areas. In "New World Notes" Wagner James Au estimates that "maybe 10%. . .depicts commercial content that is unambiguously sexual" while other observers, Au notes, claim that about 30% of in-world activity centers on sex.
How much of the Web today is dedicated to adult content? And how much more was, in the early stages of public awareness of the Web, when, as Au reminds us, there was "an unfounded hysteria which described the Net as an unbounded porn haven, a belief which threatened to ghettoize it, or worst, burden it behind walls of government regulation and excessive private filtering?"
I've no doubt that the clamors, muted for now, that SL is "all about sex" will grow louder with awareness of this virtual world, but eventually word will get out that there are also museums, universities, shopping malls, and racing-tracks in Second Life, just as on this side of our screens.
Still, HoJo gives one a glimpse into the reality, and not the hyperbole, of sex in SL. She is also more articulate than most other players I have met. By accident, I'd met someone with a vision that, while morally disturbing to some readers, is admittedly well designed and creative. During our two interviews I find myself pondering, pleasantly I'll add, the skeletons in my own closet. We all have them; it's just that in SL, some players let them out to dance and cavort a bit more than in real life. HoJo's business model depends upon this opening of closet doors.
Our interview began with Iggy walking into the Eden Revue Club and taking a seat at the bar.
[dancer]
Jennifer Lundquist: Hello Ig.
Ignatius: The club looks great. I'm a writer here to interview HoJo.
Jennifer Lundquist: hello crys.
[sitting by me at the bar] Crystal Kronos: Hello :)
HoJo Kilda arrives.
She's in a skin-tight pink bodysuit, heels, and shades. Clearly, she's
the Boss, make no mistake.
[sitting by me at the bar] Kokolino Poikolainen: Oh blond
again :-9
HoJo Kilda smiles
Crystal Kronos: Hello Ms Hojo :)
Ignatius: Hey there!
Hojo: Hey hey.
Kokolino Poikolainen: mom :-)
Hojo: Good morning.
HoJo Kilda smiles
Jennifer Lundquist: Hello , Hojo.
Crystal Kronos: Hi Ms. Hojo :)
Crystal Kronos purrrrs
Ignatius: The club has really changed. Good work.
HoJo Kilda smiles... yes it certainly has. Thank you.
Ignatius: Tour or chat first?
Hojo: I'll give you a little tour how about that?
Hojo walks expertly around the club; I follow, in my less dexterous
way. . . Hmm. . .did Hojo buy that walk?
Hojo: You
can see, I scatter some fun play furniture about.
Hojo: I like to encourage people to have an interactive experience
here.
Ignatius: How many patrons at your busiest times?
Hojo: Hmmm. . . well that all depends.
Hojo: I've given lectures. . .and had about 50 people in here.
. . .Also we get a lot of people for the theme parties, when we have different
DJ's come in.
Ignatius: More Euros, Asians, or US?
Hojo: Well Euro and US I guess. . . . The latex thing is bigger
in Europe though.
We
stroll into an area HoJo rents to merchants who sell lingerie and fetish-related
clothing.
Hojo:
We're working on getting some nice shopkeepers in here.
Hojo: Yes, I try to keep it to things that I myself would buy.
Ignatius: May I take snaps?
Hojo: By all means.
Hojo: Oh this silver bustier is hot. . .Sort of Madonna back in
the Gaultier days.
Ignatius: Who's the designer?
Hojo: Moxie Polano.
Hojo: This guy I really like. . . .This is very me.
Ignatius:
From your photos I'd say so :)
Hojo: This pink suit I'm wearing is his.
Ignatius:
Nice men's stuff, too. I'm going to do a cyberpunk AV.
Hojo: Yeah I need some more men's designers in here.
Hojo: More shops on the other side. . .and upstairs.
Ignatius: feng showed me this part under construction.
Hojo: Little lounge back here... a work in progress.
Ignatius: That Hollywood poster is wonderful!
An old movie poster, for "Hollywood Burlesque," shows a
scantily clad woman against a 50s backdrop.
Hojo: Thanks!
Hojo: Yeah I love old burlesque.
Ignatius: Me too. How do you see your club as different from others?
Hojo:
Well as someone who goes to RL Fetish clubs, I really stress fashion and
style.
Hojo: And since I also practice [similar things in real life], I like
to give people a more in depth idea of what it's all about.
Ignatius: True. You cannot do lots of things [in Second Life] w/o
RL expertise.
Hojo: Right, and this place, the girls and the guests sort of reflect
in that. It's a very sophisticated crowd here. A lot of RL players...
Ignatius: What do you think draws guests to this is SL rather than
in RL?
Hojo: Well...
Hojo: Here we can be whatever we want.
Ignatius: I know that is a BIG Q.
Hojo: And we can do whatever we want without much fear. . .So it allows
us to experiment with things we might not do in RL.
Hojo: Or in my case, just go a bit further.
Ignatius: I have this desire to be a Martian fighting machine and
raid that Caledon Sim--1890s place.
[Caledon was
meticulously designed to simulate a British seaside village in the Victorian
era; people there are in character and costume. It's just the sort of
place that H.G. Wells' Martians loved to attack.]
Hojo: Yeah! Great place!
Hojo: I kitted out much of my medical room with old quack gear from
Caledon.
Ignatius: I was wondering. . .I'm pretty tough but it did creep me
a little :)
Ignatius:
I'm also just curious about how people I interview find out about SL in
the first place.
Hojo: How I found SL? I was actually reading one of my
favorite fetish fashion blogs... A guy named 3XL, who's blog is about
latex clothing, he wrote about the fetish world here and I had to check
it out.
Ignatius: Do you anticipate "issues" as SL gets bigger?
Hojo: Issues? Well the Lindens need to get their shit together to
be honest. I know this is all still in "Beta," but we're spending
REAL money here.
Hojo: I mean just yesterday I had a big crowd for a punk party and
the world went to hell in a handbasket.
[The day before
the interview, the entire SL "grid" went offline for a while
because of a software bug. More than 20,000 people online were interrupted
in the midst of whatever they were doing at that moment.]
Ignatius: What did your visitors say about that big crash? I was trying
to get online, too.
Hojo: Well some come back, some don't.
Hojo: A lot of people had problems logging back in at all. . .
.A lot of the girls who work here had problems too... and I couldn't change
outfits, which is like being stabbed in the eye to me.
Ignatius:
That is a problem.
Ignatius:
My students keep wondering why SL isn't "stable" in the way
, say , World of Warcraft or EverQuest is. . .
Hojo: Well it's not a subscription service like those other platforms.
Ignatius: I see. . . do other virtual worlds compete for you?
HoJo Kilda shrugs... I've heard of others, Feng knows more about
them. This is the only one I've ever really explored and I'm hooked now.
Ignatius: One or two more Qs, if you have time.
Hojo: Sure, come upstairs.
Ignatius: ok.
HoJo shows off
a wall with information about the women who work in the club.
Hojo: Escort wall, so people can get in touch with the girls when
they're not here in the club.
After some bumbling, Iggy manages to enter the elevator with HoJo.
Hojo: Going up.
Ignatius: If you could teach me how to walk, I'd appreciate it :)
Hojo: You seem to be doing fine!
Hojo: Little private lounge here.
HoJo lies down on top of the piano; I sit down and begin to play.
Ignatius: Wow. Worth a snapshot.
Hojo: Love this piano.
Ignatius: You have that piano singer thing down!
HoJo Kilda smiles and starts singing "Cry Me a River."
Iggy smiles and starts singing "Take Me to the River."
HoJo Kilda giggles
Hojo: So how I met my girl is a fun story.
Ignatius: shoot.
In details too graphic for this interview, she describes meeting,
through one of her paying clients, a new female player who wanted cyber-sex.
Thus, a relationship not based on money begins, online. I'm not one to
judge HoJo or her girlfriend; the situation involves consenting adults.
Hojo: Anyway,
long story short... she was far from [being an inexperienced newbie in
SL].
Ignatius: Do newbies end up that way, often?
Hojo: Yeah well people don't know where to go when they get here.
Hojo: They don't know how to make themselves more attractive at first.
Myself included.
Ignatius:
You've done great!
Hojo: But she had her shit together.
Ignatius: But it's fun for her, too. . .she might not get this in
RL.
HoJo Kilda laughs
Hojo: Well actually. . .that's the thing. . . .We sort of connected
because we're both into it in RL.
Ignatius: I actually am trying my make myself gray and balder :)
No kidding. . .and I want my wardrobe to be flexi [clothes that move naturally
as the avatar moves].
Hojo: I've seen some hair for men like that... so much harder to find
nice men's things.
Ignatius: Yeah, as in RL you ladies have all the fun.
HoJo Kilda nods yeah.. I guess so. . .and here we don't have
our periods so it's even better.
Ignatius: Personal Q: what's the most fun you have had in SL?
HoJo Kilda smiles
Hojo: Well hard to say... I've had some pretty crazy times.
Hojo: Freshest in my mind is probably last week.
Hojo: See that machine across the room?
Ignatius: And. . .yes, I see it.
Hojo: Called a hypnotron.
Ignatius: feng tried to explain it.
Hojo: It helps to induce trance states, leaving the person open to
suggestion.
Ignatius: What got suggested?
Hojo: I mean the subject still plays along you can say.. but I
think after numerous sessions in it, it does sort of sink in on an unconscious
level.
Hojo: Well [club employee] Alektra's really into hypno.
Hojo: So I put her into it and made her my robo girl.
HoJo Kilda giggles
Hojo: I can't really make her do anything, she just vulnerable
to suggestion.
Ignatius: I think I see. . .
Hojo: And she roleplays amazingly well. I felt like, well. . . I had
a fembot. . . like something out of Barbarella.
Hojo: So I dressed her up in head to toe latex, took her out to
a [club] with a friend. . .
Hojo: And we all put on a little show.
Ignatius: And I love Barbarella. That whole SF "damsel in
distress" is hot. . .
Hojo: Yeah totally. . . Me too.
Hojo: I love the kitsch factor too.
Hojo: I sort of see myself as Tura Satana from "Faster Pussycat
Kill Kill." Meets Mink Stole in "Pink Flamingos."
Ignatius: OH, yeah! Topless hot-rod road-rage!
[Gentle readers,
I have admitted to one of my lowbrow male fantasies: B-movies with semi-nude
women and muscle cars. . .and perhaps a journalist in an ape-suit.]
HoJo Kilda sneers
Ignatius: What sorts of features do you think the club will add as
SL grows? I mean, we'll soon have 50K concurrence soon.
["Concurrence"
is the number of people logged onto the SL servers at any one time. It
is steadily rising.]
Hojo: Well if the sim can support all the scripts running here on
the island, I want a small poker room. I'm a big card player, so I'd like
that.
Hojo: Also we're going to start putting on more shows here. . .fashion
shows. . .art shows.
Hojo: Need more vintage fetish though.
Ignatius: If SL flops, what are your plans?
Hojo: Hmmmm. . .good question.
HoJo Kilda laughs
Ignatius: I mean, could it?
Hojo: I suppose it could. It could be superceded by something better,
more stable.
Ignatius:
True. SL is "crashy" now.
Hojo: What would I do? I don't know really.
Hojo: I've invested a lot of time and money here and I really like
it here.
Hojo: Maybe I'd just scale back my business ventures and just have
fun.
Ignatius: Do you think that some sort of virtual world would do this,
if SL failed? I could see that.
Hojo: I could see it... what makes SL special is the user created
content though.
Ignatius: Wish I had another hour. I agree--we build the world.
Hojo: People don't come here to see what some big corporation is creating...
they want to see what you and I are doing.
HoJo Kilda smiles
Ignatius: see you soon!
HoJo Kilda winks
Ignatius Onomatopoeia blows a kiss
HoJo Kilda blows a kiss
Of course I had follow-up questions, because HoJo and I both enjoyed chit-chatting during the interview and got off-topic a bit. After all, in her line of work it is not common to have a male present who just wants to chat, and in mine it is a little unnerving to be in a location like Eden Revue, even as a writer.
Here are a few out-takes from an IM session with HoJo done later on. I was standing in a deserted store in a virtual version of Dublin Ireland.
Ignatius:
How would you market the club, if you have to? Right now it's word of
mouth, true?
HoJo Kilda nods.. yes, word of mouth. I have a pretty large circle
of friends and acquaintances here in SL, so word got around pretty fast.
I have also begun delving into paying for advertising space here and there
and swapping links or landmarks with friends who are in similar businesses.
HoJo: Of course there's the inworld search engine as
well. I tweak my keywords so that people with a similar bent can find
my place. I also announce events on the SL website and I make liberal
use of the many related SL groups... "Fetish Dolls" for instance
or "SL Party Promotion," etc.
Ignatius: Did you get to Hair Fair, btw?
HoJo: I did! I'm wearing some new hair now. I went there
with my girlfriend last night and we went nuts!
Ignatius: You should send me an updated close up for
the profile. I swear, though, I was the male geek in women's country [at
Hair Fair 2007]. It was a hoot!
HoJo: I'm sure... ok. I have a bazillion pictures of
myself. I'm such a ham!
Ignatius: Me, too. I bought a new skin at Lila's and
it looks frighteningly like me after my summer buzz-cut.
HoJo: Nice... I need some new skins... I hate paying
a lot for skins, since I change them so often.
HoJo checks my
profile, and I realize that she has seen not Iggy 2.0 but Ol' Putty Head!
HoJo: Wow!
Ignatius: Oh, my profile pic is [me goofing off]. I'll
put the new skin on my blog in an entry next week. It's actually really
life-like.
Ignatius: Here is the proverbial "final" Q.
How do you attract dancers and escorts to the Eden Revue? Network of friends
again?
HoJo Kilda nods... that and I just have a sign up in my club.
HoJo: I'm also infamous for Shanghai-ing hot chicks who
can roleplay to come work for me... ask my girlfriend :)
Ignatius: lol
HoJo [joking--I reckon]: Slip 'em a virtual mickey and
next thing they know they're chained to a pole onstage, dancing for a
bunch of guys.
Ignatius: If only writers could Shanghai publishers!
HoJo Kilda laughs. Yeah!
Ignatius: Fiendish grin.
Hojo begins
sending photos of her and her friends in-world. Most are R-rated stuff;
a few I can use here.
Ignatius: These pix are perfect. Got a fave you prefer
me to use?
HoJo: Well I just took those to show you some new hair
I just got... I'll send you a bunch and you can use whichever you'd like.
Ignatius: Thanks. That black page-boy 'doo is very hot.
HoJo Kilda smiles... thank you. I like my hair short sometimes.
HoJo: Oh my god... want to see a crazy picture? It's
what I do in my club when there's no one around...
Ignatius: You bet.
A photo of Hojo
as a rock groupie, tattooed and doing things one might expect during the
next tour of Spinal Tap, appears on my screen.
HoJo: Rock n' roll!
Ignatius: Well woo-hoo.
HoJo Kilda shakes head... I took that for a client that likes
to roleplay being a rockstar.
Ignatius: We all gotta role-play. I told Ida [Keen] that
I want to be the Hunter S. Thompson of SL. Somebody's got to!
HoJo: Yeah! Totally. . .You need the fisherman's hat.
. .you can get the cigarette with the long holder downstairs from the
ciggy machine in my club. . .If you want. I'll get you one.
HoJo: I think I have a nice pair of aviator shades too.
Ignatius: Okay, I have one of Iggy 2.0. [I send her
a snap of my avatar's present look.]
HoJo: Oooh I like!
Ignatius: Thanks!
HoJo: Here. . .last one for now. Me in red [hair].
Ignatius: Got to run now. As always, BIG FUN talking
to you! Thanks.
HoJo Kilda smiles.. any time Iggy.
HoJo Kilda blows a kiss
Ignatius blows a kiss
Postscript: As usual, we had a whee of a time, since most SL conversations, and conversationalists, are banal. I've found that conversations with HoJo, however, are free-wheeling: both of us say just about any crazy thing that pops into our heads, including my ramblings about public appearances as Ol' Putty Head and a tuxedo-clad gorilla.
Is acting silly a fetish? If so, SL is one big fetish-club for me.
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