This is a long rant. It doesn't mean much of anything, except I'll feel better by saying it. It's cathartic to me. It's my blog. I'm not saying anything that didn't happen. I'm going to say what I want here, as long as I don't slander anyone. So there. This is my disclaimer. If you don't want to hear about something you can do nothing about and that is over, stop here.
I pondered this for a couple of days. As all of you know, I am a member of ravelry.com, a site for knitters (or fiber hobbyits/artists) that was started by a nice young couple. One of them is a wildly talented programmer. It's obvious they are a caring couple even by reading their Terms of Service. This site has six "standard boards" that everyone is subscribed to when they join. It covers basics. I'll be honest, here, and say I didn't even realize they were there and had never posted to one of them - ever. I was more interested in other areas of Ravelry.
However, one day, I just clicked on the "forums" button and saw a subject that had been started by said young programmer saying there was a lot of controversy and hurt feelings in the boards and asking for an opinion by the open membership of Ravelry for their opinions on whether or not these boards should be kept. He said it is a drain on Ravelry and it seems people get off topic and attack each other. I don't think he was talking about just general disagreements, but I'm not so sure anymore.
At any rate, I wrote that I thought there would always be disagreements with thousands of people in one place and posting with no real constraints. Naturally, there will be heated arguments. There are heated arguments in real life. I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion and I have learned a lot by reading dissenting opinions in the past. What I said was I didn't think there was a way to please everyone. I don't. I also think it is a bit naive to put such a "survey" out there for thousands of people to post their opinions.
I almost didn't post at all. However, I went back and looked at the basic content of these boards and realized that, had I known what they were when I was first a member, I would have benefited from them. So, against my better judgment (oh, how I wish I had followed it), I posted said comment.
Naturally, I was interested in what answers came about. I read the following post from another member (and some previous ones) in which she used what I felt was language that wasn't fitting in a forum where all ages and backgrounds post. Now, you need to know this isn't the only post this person has made with language of this type and worse. You should also know that I can, if I am so provoked, swear with the best of them. I, generally, don't do it in public, though. My father once said to me that people use language of this type because they are too ignorant or arrogant to use more controlled words to get their ideas heard.
Here's the quote I replied to, followed by my reply. I truly wasn't meaning to call this person a "bad" person. I was just trying to point out there are people who would be offended by it.
it’s so fucked up that you even have to sit there and CONSIDER deactivating those forums, and even further fucked up that you have to take the time from your hard ass job to type this post out. i just don’t get some people.
i really want that “get a life (eleventybillion)” button now.
ETA: the get a life remark is NOT meant towards CASEY! it’s meant towards people that take these forums and threads so much to heart that they get all stressed out and end up leaving ravelry. i learned years ago that this is the INTERNET. while i have made many friends on this internet who i appreciate and love dearly, i have also learned to STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER and remind myself that i should be concentrating on those problems smacking me in the face in real life.
reply
Since this is a public forum, it is inevitable that we will sometimes offend others. I worked at a high school for years and, while it runs off me like water, your language in this case was bound to offend some people. I think you know that, but used it to make your point in a dramatic manner. That’s OK. Just be aware that, no matter what you say, now, the people who were offended will relate you to the words. The “get a life” button goes in both directions.
There are a lot of us here. I like these Boards. I hope we can either stop and think and be as non-offensive as we can be, or just accept the fact that some people use language and affect differently and go on. Since we don’t usually have to deal with each other on a day to day basis, it shouldn’t be something we take personally.
For example, I don’t like the words you used, personally, so I will make it a point to not read your posts. Simple.
Keep the Boards. Ignore the people you don’t like.
A bit later, the following was posted:
that is quite a ridiculous attitude as i do not curse in every single post i make. it’s also kind of ridiculous to not “like” someone because of a word they used.
but hey, no skin off my back. ignore all you’d like.
ETA: and it obviously does not run off you like water if you need to never read any of my posts. you should also re-read your post using your same advice: make sure you’re not offending anyone (including ME) in your text. good grief.
I chose not to reply to this. Then the following appeared:
u know what? your post has pissed me off to limits i have not reached since i was on a soaping forum several years ago. your post is extremely offensive - i did not tell anyone in particular to go “get a life” as you have done with me. i also take offense in your thinking that everyone will now relate me to my words. i do NOT regret what i posted there. i said it from the heart. those that know me and those that may not know me but are mature enough will read them and MOVE ON. i cannot believe you sit there and preach on people to stop and think and be non-offensive when your post REEKS of offense.
your post has pissed me off enough to now have an opinion on rav’s forums.
yes, go ahead and get rid of them all. let people only join those groups they wish to partake in so that they do not need to deal with idiocies such as these.
ETA: casey, maybe you can have a link near the logo on top when you post to the site announcements thread you have. this is actually the only thread i visit 99% of the time when i go to the forums on rav. whenever i see a bold 1 there i clic quickly anxious to read what new toys you’ve given us or what’s coming.
I thought, "Wow! Either I am way off base, or this person is a total whacko." I suppose I could have been more "gentle" in my answer. I'm sorry, though, I just don't like to hear this in a public, written forum. I don't care how people talk. I can tune them out or walk away. I can ignore the posts, but I suppose I thought it would be, maybe, just a bit of a "thought provoker." Well, it was! Big time! LOL
Right after THIS post, the moderator said we should keep on topic and remember the programmer's original (in my opinion, crazy) question. If that hadn't have happened, I'd have probably said what I said in a personal message (because I really hadn't meant to attack her - just suggest that, if we don't like something, don't read it.) to this person, which is:
I apologize if I offended you. I really wasn’t intending to do that. I wasn’t saying the “get a life” button referred to you, alone. I was just saying we can ignore anyone we want. I was saying that in support of Casey and the groups. I was saying that, if I don’t like a post, I don’t have to read it or anything else I don’t want to. It doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like you as a person.
I don’t really get “offended” by the language. I just don’t see the point in it. That’s OK. I have no right to censor you. I’m truly sorry I made you so angry. That’s definitely not my goal in life.
I do hope you’ll accept my apology. I repeat what I said before: you are a beautiful young woman. Oh, and your projects are beautiful.
She wrote back to say she would only accept my apology and believe it was sincere if I apologized in the thread where I "attacked" her. I wrote back, saying, I apologized and to take it or leave it. I would not apologize in the thread because we were told to stay on topic. I did not mention that she
really attacked me. Even if she took offense at my comment, I think I was civil.
I want to also point out the responses to my comments to here were recorded with far, far (more than twice as many) "agree" votes than "disagree." The same can not be said of hers. That leads me to believe I wasn't out of line or, at least, not very far out of line.
I followed some more of this young lady's posts and found she belongs to a large number of "forums" where they spend all their time discussing how people should "just get over it," and "get a life" when it comes to foul language. After all, they say, it's in every day life, in books, on TV, people on the street. Well, that's true. I hear it all the time. I kind of mentally filter it out, if I think it's inappropriate and, if I had a child with me, I'd remove them from the situation. The fact is, that's not always possible on the Internet. In an ideal world, parents would always know what their children are doing on the Internet and would be able to monitor it effectively. We all know, that's just not true.
After the email exchange, which I just quit responding to, she followed me around and "took umbrage" (my words, not hers) to almost everything I said. It was not a pleasant experience. She even misrepresented the "Terms of Service" of Ravelry and threatened to "report me" and "have something done about it." I'm not sure what she thought she was going to report, but ...
This lady, a truly beautiful African American woman, has four children of her own. From many of her posts, it sounds like she truly loves these words. She states they are so much a part of her life she doesn't even think about it. I think that's sad. Furthermore, I wonder if she would feel the same about some ethnic words out there. After all, some folks could consider them "a part of their life," too. Somehow, I don't think she would be overly thrilled if anyone started saying things like, "Hi there you gorgeous __________ (yes, there was ethnicity involved)." I guess that comes under a different "standard."
I really feel it was a foolish thing to put the issue of "whether or not to continue" the main six forums. Either you are a manager, or you're not. If you're a manager and you're having "big time, draining" issues with something that is not an absolute necessity and you are the 100% owner of something, you have to make up your own mind. You can eliminate the boards. You can monitor them closely. You can set into place consequences. Thousands of mismash answers are really going to be hard to sort through. It seems to me, that by asking this question and, then, not monitoring it A LOT, you are just going to cause more problems.
That's what it did with me. It has taken something I truly felt strongly about and enjoyed tremendously and kind of raveled (pun intended) the edges a bit.
I made my first $5 donation to the site just a couple of days ago. I worked as a volunteer editor. For now, at least, there will be no more donations made in any amount. I resigned from the editor's group. I do not read many forums anymore and I don't post to fewer.
There's nothing here that can't be found somewhere else. It's a great site because everything is in one place, but the "stuff" is out there.
Like I said, this is a rant. It irritated me no end. It's over, but it did help me to write it out. If you read it, well you put in a lot of effort and I appreciate your going on the journey with me.
Say a little prayer for the "Great Knitter's War." Life goes on and I just don't care after writing this. That pleases me.