simon, nabi, and shamil
today monica and ivan had
interviews in the morning and late afternoon. in the morning we met with two
alums of harvard's kennedy school. in the afternoon it was shamil beno, the
former chechen foreign minister under dudayev.
Another early morning, but
cooler than
yesterday.
Today the day began with me taking care of Ingrid while Mom, Monica, and Sam slept. Ingrid and I played silly games until Sam woke up. I made coffee, but I'm tired of scrambled eggs and toast so I kind of ditched making breakfast until Monica got up and made, well, scrambled eggs and toast.
Our first interview was scheduled for 10:30 a.m.; and we met at Academia cafe, which is right around the corner from us. We actually made it right on time too. The hardest part was leaving, because Ingrid has started to make it a habit to fuss and cry and carry on as if we were being exiled and she'd never see us again (Mom later told us that after we left she went right into our bedroom and laid down for a solid protest nap).
Our morning meeting was marked by good coffee (Academia was closed so we moved down to a place called Zen Coffee of all things) and good conversation about Chechnya and the Russian Federation. Monica and I were surprised to learn that our interviewees had only recently (in the last few years) attended the Kennedy School's master's program. How had we missed them? Needless to say their English was impeccable. Both men were from Central Asia and both were experts on issues relating to Chechnya and Daghestan and the Russian Federation.
The interview itself was a bit less interesting for me than for Monica. Essentially, these two confirmed much of what we'd already learned from other sources. The situation after the first Chechen war was a catch-22: Chechens desperately needed reconstruction (and lots of it) aid to improve their security and give local fighters and youth jobs, but foreign donors were reluctant to send aid in an insecure environment. Russian defeat had been due mainly to incompetence and to applying the wrong type of forces to combat Dudayev's fighters. Its human rights abuses were incidental to that mix of forces, lack of training and discipline, and above all lack of proper supply. Western countries were also reluctant to recognize Chechen independence because of the general preference of states to support the standard of sovereign immunity for fear of setting a dangerous precedent (most of the world's states are multinational, which means allowing one national group to hive off may inadvertently encourage others to try it, starting a chain reaction that disintegrates the state). Simon confirmed something else that nagged me: the Russian Federation has no system in place to properly train and retain professional non-commissioned officers; which means it is nearly impossible for its troops to maintain hard-learned lessons from past combat. Essentially, each unit has a baptism of fire, learns by trial and error how to survive and increase effectiveness, and then the enlisted men quit and go home, leaving the next group of recruits to learn everything all over again under a different set of junior officers.
We parted at lunchtime, and returned to the apartment to see how the kids were doing. Were they asleep or awake? Ingrid woke as soon as we arrived and Sam had cabin fever (so did Mom I think); so we decided to try the lunch special at Academia (now open).
The meal was fantastic as usual; and afterward I walked Mom (with Ingrid) to a local bookstore to stock her up on more pulp fiction (she's already burned through what she brought with her). Monica took Sam home for a nap (a very tired boy he was).
Our next interview was scheduled for 5:00 p.m. at the old hotel Rossiya, just northeast of the Kremlin complex. Before that though, we needed a resupply mission (water, milk, and so on), so Mom agreed to watch Sam as he slept while Monica and I took Ingrid up to Yeliseev's (we bought more eggs, but this time cereal as well).
We arrived home with just enough time to put the groceries away before heading out to our final interview of the day with Shamil Beno; a figure as colorful as he was legendary. This time the walk was a relatively short 15 minutes, and as we walked I snapped a few photos in Red Square (Russia's independence day celebration is Saturday, so normal restrictions in the square are suspended while workmen prepare a huge scaffolding and stage for the speeches). If you look closely at the photo of me in front of the Lenin Mausoleum you can just make out the reflections of the coats of arms of all the component regions of the Russian Federation in the marble.
We arrived at the Rossiya (dingy looking hotel on the right) on time, but Shamil did not meet us in the lobby. After Monica phoned him, however, he came right down. We moved off to a small bar in the hotel where Monica and I indelicately (unwisely too: the thing nearly put me to sleep) ordered beers while Shamil (a Muslim) had coffee. But the interview was wonderful. We asked questions in English (slowly) and Shamil answered them in (rapid) Russian. I confess my Russian is so rusty I only got about two-thirds of his answers to Monica's questions. But it was clear she challenged him on several counts. For example, Shamil characterized Basayev (the charismatic terrorist leader du jour in Chechnya) as a frustrated separatist whose relations with fundamentalist Islamists (Jihadis and Wahabbis, many from Saudi Arabia) were purely pragmatic. Monica asked "if this is true, why carry the war to Daghestan and Ingushetia (as was done last year and the year before)?
As to the military situation, I asked only one question: was Russia's "success" in the second war due to better Russian training and strategy, or to a shift in political objectives from the original goal of re-establishing the status quo prior to the first war (a stable Chechen state subservient to Moscow), to the simpler objective of punishing the Chechens (and perhaps setting an example for other separatist wanna-be's)? His answer was to read an interview by Ivan Rybkin, a former member of Russia's Parliament, in Nezavisimaya Gazyeta (1996); which revealed all. I will do that, but Shamil seemed to support the "lowered political objectives" argument.
A final faux pas was that I paid our bar tab as we left the bar (Shamil protested and appeared genuinely put out). Shamil invited us to a Caucasian dinner later in our stay (Mom and the kids will go too: very exciting).
By now over two hours had elapsed and so Monica and I rushed home to relieve Mom and get dinner made. Dinner, it turned out, would be home made chicken soup, with fresh cabbage and carrots, and hearty brown bread with raisins and nuts. It took Monica about half an hour to finish making dinner and it was the best yet.
I have no idea what we're doing tomorrow. Everyone's asleep already but me. It's 11:15 p.m. and the sun is only now just starting to set.
Today the day began with me taking care of Ingrid while Mom, Monica, and Sam slept. Ingrid and I played silly games until Sam woke up. I made coffee, but I'm tired of scrambled eggs and toast so I kind of ditched making breakfast until Monica got up and made, well, scrambled eggs and toast.
Our first interview was scheduled for 10:30 a.m.; and we met at Academia cafe, which is right around the corner from us. We actually made it right on time too. The hardest part was leaving, because Ingrid has started to make it a habit to fuss and cry and carry on as if we were being exiled and she'd never see us again (Mom later told us that after we left she went right into our bedroom and laid down for a solid protest nap).
Our morning meeting was marked by good coffee (Academia was closed so we moved down to a place called Zen Coffee of all things) and good conversation about Chechnya and the Russian Federation. Monica and I were surprised to learn that our interviewees had only recently (in the last few years) attended the Kennedy School's master's program. How had we missed them? Needless to say their English was impeccable. Both men were from Central Asia and both were experts on issues relating to Chechnya and Daghestan and the Russian Federation.
The interview itself was a bit less interesting for me than for Monica. Essentially, these two confirmed much of what we'd already learned from other sources. The situation after the first Chechen war was a catch-22: Chechens desperately needed reconstruction (and lots of it) aid to improve their security and give local fighters and youth jobs, but foreign donors were reluctant to send aid in an insecure environment. Russian defeat had been due mainly to incompetence and to applying the wrong type of forces to combat Dudayev's fighters. Its human rights abuses were incidental to that mix of forces, lack of training and discipline, and above all lack of proper supply. Western countries were also reluctant to recognize Chechen independence because of the general preference of states to support the standard of sovereign immunity for fear of setting a dangerous precedent (most of the world's states are multinational, which means allowing one national group to hive off may inadvertently encourage others to try it, starting a chain reaction that disintegrates the state). Simon confirmed something else that nagged me: the Russian Federation has no system in place to properly train and retain professional non-commissioned officers; which means it is nearly impossible for its troops to maintain hard-learned lessons from past combat. Essentially, each unit has a baptism of fire, learns by trial and error how to survive and increase effectiveness, and then the enlisted men quit and go home, leaving the next group of recruits to learn everything all over again under a different set of junior officers.
We parted at lunchtime, and returned to the apartment to see how the kids were doing. Were they asleep or awake? Ingrid woke as soon as we arrived and Sam had cabin fever (so did Mom I think); so we decided to try the lunch special at Academia (now open).
The meal was fantastic as usual; and afterward I walked Mom (with Ingrid) to a local bookstore to stock her up on more pulp fiction (she's already burned through what she brought with her). Monica took Sam home for a nap (a very tired boy he was).
Our next interview was scheduled for 5:00 p.m. at the old hotel Rossiya, just northeast of the Kremlin complex. Before that though, we needed a resupply mission (water, milk, and so on), so Mom agreed to watch Sam as he slept while Monica and I took Ingrid up to Yeliseev's (we bought more eggs, but this time cereal as well).
We arrived home with just enough time to put the groceries away before heading out to our final interview of the day with Shamil Beno; a figure as colorful as he was legendary. This time the walk was a relatively short 15 minutes, and as we walked I snapped a few photos in Red Square (Russia's independence day celebration is Saturday, so normal restrictions in the square are suspended while workmen prepare a huge scaffolding and stage for the speeches). If you look closely at the photo of me in front of the Lenin Mausoleum you can just make out the reflections of the coats of arms of all the component regions of the Russian Federation in the marble.
We arrived at the Rossiya (dingy looking hotel on the right) on time, but Shamil did not meet us in the lobby. After Monica phoned him, however, he came right down. We moved off to a small bar in the hotel where Monica and I indelicately (unwisely too: the thing nearly put me to sleep) ordered beers while Shamil (a Muslim) had coffee. But the interview was wonderful. We asked questions in English (slowly) and Shamil answered them in (rapid) Russian. I confess my Russian is so rusty I only got about two-thirds of his answers to Monica's questions. But it was clear she challenged him on several counts. For example, Shamil characterized Basayev (the charismatic terrorist leader du jour in Chechnya) as a frustrated separatist whose relations with fundamentalist Islamists (Jihadis and Wahabbis, many from Saudi Arabia) were purely pragmatic. Monica asked "if this is true, why carry the war to Daghestan and Ingushetia (as was done last year and the year before)?
As to the military situation, I asked only one question: was Russia's "success" in the second war due to better Russian training and strategy, or to a shift in political objectives from the original goal of re-establishing the status quo prior to the first war (a stable Chechen state subservient to Moscow), to the simpler objective of punishing the Chechens (and perhaps setting an example for other separatist wanna-be's)? His answer was to read an interview by Ivan Rybkin, a former member of Russia's Parliament, in Nezavisimaya Gazyeta (1996); which revealed all. I will do that, but Shamil seemed to support the "lowered political objectives" argument.
A final faux pas was that I paid our bar tab as we left the bar (Shamil protested and appeared genuinely put out). Shamil invited us to a Caucasian dinner later in our stay (Mom and the kids will go too: very exciting).
By now over two hours had elapsed and so Monica and I rushed home to relieve Mom and get dinner made. Dinner, it turned out, would be home made chicken soup, with fresh cabbage and carrots, and hearty brown bread with raisins and nuts. It took Monica about half an hour to finish making dinner and it was the best yet.
I have no idea what we're doing tomorrow. Everyone's asleep already but me. It's 11:15 p.m. and the sun is only now just starting to set.
Posted: Thu - June 9, 2005 at 11:19 PM
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Published On: Jun 10, 2005 11:05 PM
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Published On: Jun 10, 2005 11:05 PM