On Sep 1, 2006, at 2:44 PM, xxxx wrote:
"The USA broke international law AND pissed off a 100 million Americans by INVADING Iraq without any provocation whatsoever."
That is a serious charge. Care to cite what international law was violated in invading Iraq? Iraq was in blatant violation of UN resolutions promising "serious consequences." Plus, the Iraq war was authorized by overwhelming majorities in both houses of Congress and the polls taken at the time indicated that approximately two-thirds of the US population was in favor of the war. It was not until after the constant negative drum beat of woe in Iraq by the media that support for the war started to trail off. Then the Monday-morning quarterbacks started crawling out of the woodwork. And like I said in my original post, the majority of Americans do not want to pull out of Iraq if it means loosing to the terrorist and Muslim fundamentalist.
"The President and his staff flat-out lied to their country and to the world. They fucked up. They preyed upon the post 9/11 insecurities and shoved a square hole thru a round peg."
So did Clinton, the UN, and British, French and German intelligence. Everyone thought there were WMD in Iraq. To me, the whole WMD thing is overblown. This was only partially about WMD, and all about sticking a hot poker into the eye of the Muslim world and making them say "Uncle ... Sam." In my original post I said we need to fight the fundamentalists in a battle ground of our choosing where the horrors of war are visited on their population, not ours. That is EXACTLY what is happening in Iraq. I cannot imagine a people more deserving that the Iraqi Sunnis. If it wasn't in Bagdad, those SOB's would be causing trouble in NY or Vienna.
"There is CIVIL WAR in Iraq right now."
Actually, a civil war connotes two geographically defined portions of the same country with their own armies waging war. What we have in Iraq is chaos, inadequate security and a bunch of assholes with bombs. The unified Iraqi army is fighting those assholes. Now, if the Sunni militias and the Shi'ite militias totally overwhelm the Iraqi army and start going at it, then you will have a civil war.
"There would have been Civil War there sooner or later - WITHOUT the U.S. sticking its big Defense business nose in or not. Meanwhile, there is not a goddamn thing to be attained in Iraq now, a year from now, or 2-3-4-5 years from now. We deposed a vile dictator and now he's on trial. Get the fuck out. You know goddamn well their have been huge contracts signed that are contingent on the War lasting "X" amount of months. Follow the money trail, you find your answer every time."
There are experts whose job it is to break down screenplays and figure how much money it will cost to produce a movie. These guys are experts. They budget for every item of expendables, film stock, actors overtime, crew fringe benefits, etc. They account for everything. Then they tack on an additional 20% for contingencies, because shit happens and everything ends up costing more than what was budgeted. It never fails. Extending this to the concept of war, which is even more unpredictable that movie making, if you plan on spending 100 billion on a war, you had better expect 20 billion to go down the rabbit hole.
"There is no big bad Islamic wolf."
Yes, there is.
"What really exists is what I've said all along: Muslim country's despising the U.S. for propping up Israel. BEFORE the U.S. became Israel's backbone, tell me, please tell me of one instance of Islamic terrorism inflicted upon America. Please tell me what morning the Muslims woke up and said, "You know what? We fucking hate fucking America and we are gonna blow their Infidel asses up!" "
Ion Perdicaris was kidnapped by Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, until Teddy Roosevelt said "I want Mrs. Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead!" (See the Wind and the Lion with Sean Connery, interesting movie.) Islam is an expansionist religion that by its basic tenets is intolerant of other religions until Islam controls the world. It was only a matter of time until this rapidly expanding religion came into conflict with the West. It was just a coincidence that it happened the same time that the British and the UN decided to create Isreal.
"But nobody is ever gonna stand up "and blame the jews again!", right? I just finished a book by Roddy Doyle about Ireland in the very early 1900's during the Michael Collins years fighting for independence from Britain. A character remarks about the Jewish people: "...ever stop and think why they've been chased out of every single bloody country in Europe?" "
The USA has accepted them and they are just fine here. What is Europe's problem? Maybe anti-Jewish prejudice?
"Yeah, and then they got their own state in the Middle East. Do you really think those neighboring countrys wanted them, either? And there has been a "Mid-East Crisis", a never-ending, non fucking stop M.E. Crisis for over 40 years now. Hmmm, ever wonder why?"
Go back farther. It pre-dates the founding of Israel. The Jews stole the land from the Cannites. The Romans stole it from the Jews. The land was Christian for centuries before the Muslims stole it from the Byzantines. The Christians took it back during the crusades, held it for a hundred years then the Muslims stole it again. The Turks (another type of Muslim) stole it from other Muslims, until the British took it from the Turks after WWI. As far as I am concerned, no one has a very good claim to that dirt patch in the Eastern Mediterranean. It belonged to British and with UN approval they SOLD it to the Jews. It wasn't really stolen from the Arabs. The Muslims are just using it as a cause de jour as motivation for their global jihad.
"I'm not anti-semitic, I'm anti-dumb."
Yes, you are. (anti-semitic, that is)
"Why the fuck would they live in an area where everybody hates you and wants you to leave? Get the fuck out, already."
I say they should move to Florida, but they want that dirt patch. And if they want to be the lightning rod, more power to them.
"Don't even begin to puke the "bastion of democracy Israel holds in a turbulent area". It's turbulent BECAUSE of Israel existing in the first place."
Yes. And that is all part of our master plan. We want chaos in the Muslim world. We want them in such a lather that they cannot see straight. We want them gunning at Israel rather than planning world domination. I say bomb Mecca with menstrual fluid. That's throw'em for a loop.
"Austria rules,"
In what, international sledding?
DR