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Published On: Apr 26, 2006 10:02 PM
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Published On: Apr 26, 2006 10:02 PM
The Nine Noble Virtues Controversy?
I recently read a very long article in which
the author talked about the Nine Noble Virtues as a heathen version of the Ten
Commandments. Basically, he was saying that there were a crutch for those
unable to leave the teachings of Christianity behind (on a subconscious
level).
I disagree. I guess you could have figured that out by reading my previous entries on the subject.
Firstly, as I've mentioned before, there is nothing ancient about the list. It's a modern construction, based on the ideals espoused in the Lore. Much of it comes from the Havamal. If it is a crutch at all, it is not a crutch for those who can't quite give up those Christian teachings; it is a crutch for those of us who have trouble memorizing hundreds of lines of poetry.
Secondly, the Ten Commandments were laws, provided by the Jewish god to Moses. Even the Havamal itself is not a set of laws; but good advice provided by the god Odin, in a much more entertaining fashion than a list of "Thou shalt not's" on a piece of rock (my spell checker is having a fit. "Shalt" is not a word, and it's having trouble with "not's" as well). One is under no compulsion to follow them, only "It will be useful if you learn it; do you good, if you have it." The NNV are one step further removed from that.
As laws, the Ten Commandments required the obedience of the Jew (later the Christian as well). Without that obedience, the unfortunate would be... smote, or something, by their just, vicious, crabby Old Testament god (honestly. Read the Old Testament sometime. Either parenthood seriously mellowed out Jehovah, or he got a PR firm to review the New Testament before publication). What's the worst thing that will happen if you don't follow the principles of the NNV? People might not like you as much.
The Ten Commandments have to be followed (I'm not really repeating myself. It' just sounds like it). They have to be known, exactly. As I've said before, I don't memorize the NNV, because I truly believe it's easier to follow the principles behind them if I understand them but don't actually list them off. An example:
Christian A would never dream of shoplifting because he read in Exodus (I think it was Exodus) that God said "Thou shalt not steal."
Heathen B has learned that Honor is an important virtue, not just because it appears on a list, but because it is a living, breathing part of his religion. He knows that by demonstrating Honor, those in his kindred will look up to him. This keeps him from taking what doesn't belong to him, among many other things..
We don't need the list because it is important to our lives. They need their list because it is important to their deaths.
They're both culturally-based moral codes. In that respect, neither is better than the other, except in a culture for which it was not made. The Ten Commandments don't really fit with our modern culture anymore. They just don't seem to be important to the majority of Christians -- adulterers, thieves (on their taxes, if nowhere else), etc. The NNV are more fluid, more flexible, and as good suggestions have a much longer potential life. After all, once a child learns that even if he doesn't shut up, Mom or Dad isn't going to turn that car around, the threat loses its vitality. The wrathful, vengeful, Old Testament god seems to have gone out for a sandwich a couple thousand years ago. With no threat, only a demonstrable promise of a drop in social standing, the NNV are dependent on the greater heathen community for "enforcement." As such, their strength is in their acceptance.
I disagree. I guess you could have figured that out by reading my previous entries on the subject.
Firstly, as I've mentioned before, there is nothing ancient about the list. It's a modern construction, based on the ideals espoused in the Lore. Much of it comes from the Havamal. If it is a crutch at all, it is not a crutch for those who can't quite give up those Christian teachings; it is a crutch for those of us who have trouble memorizing hundreds of lines of poetry.
Secondly, the Ten Commandments were laws, provided by the Jewish god to Moses. Even the Havamal itself is not a set of laws; but good advice provided by the god Odin, in a much more entertaining fashion than a list of "Thou shalt not's" on a piece of rock (my spell checker is having a fit. "Shalt" is not a word, and it's having trouble with "not's" as well). One is under no compulsion to follow them, only "It will be useful if you learn it; do you good, if you have it." The NNV are one step further removed from that.
As laws, the Ten Commandments required the obedience of the Jew (later the Christian as well). Without that obedience, the unfortunate would be... smote, or something, by their just, vicious, crabby Old Testament god (honestly. Read the Old Testament sometime. Either parenthood seriously mellowed out Jehovah, or he got a PR firm to review the New Testament before publication). What's the worst thing that will happen if you don't follow the principles of the NNV? People might not like you as much.
The Ten Commandments have to be followed (I'm not really repeating myself. It' just sounds like it). They have to be known, exactly. As I've said before, I don't memorize the NNV, because I truly believe it's easier to follow the principles behind them if I understand them but don't actually list them off. An example:
Christian A would never dream of shoplifting because he read in Exodus (I think it was Exodus) that God said "Thou shalt not steal."
Heathen B has learned that Honor is an important virtue, not just because it appears on a list, but because it is a living, breathing part of his religion. He knows that by demonstrating Honor, those in his kindred will look up to him. This keeps him from taking what doesn't belong to him, among many other things..
We don't need the list because it is important to our lives. They need their list because it is important to their deaths.
They're both culturally-based moral codes. In that respect, neither is better than the other, except in a culture for which it was not made. The Ten Commandments don't really fit with our modern culture anymore. They just don't seem to be important to the majority of Christians -- adulterers, thieves (on their taxes, if nowhere else), etc. The NNV are more fluid, more flexible, and as good suggestions have a much longer potential life. After all, once a child learns that even if he doesn't shut up, Mom or Dad isn't going to turn that car around, the threat loses its vitality. The wrathful, vengeful, Old Testament god seems to have gone out for a sandwich a couple thousand years ago. With no threat, only a demonstrable promise of a drop in social standing, the NNV are dependent on the greater heathen community for "enforcement." As such, their strength is in their acceptance.
Posted: Thu - March 18, 2004 at 03:04 PM