Quick Links
Categories
My iTunes
My Flickr
My Blogroll
Archives and Links
Browse archives by date
My Old Blog
My Homepage
100 Things About Me
My Book List
My Husband
My Church
MoreLight Presbyterians
The Presbyterian Church USA
The Monkey Sphere
Mark Morford, SF Gate
Miss Manners
My Old Blog
My Homepage
100 Things About Me
My Book List
My Husband
My Church
MoreLight Presbyterians
The Presbyterian Church USA
The Monkey Sphere
Mark Morford, SF Gate
Miss Manners
XML/RSS Feed
Calendar
| Sun | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat |
Statistics
Total entries in this blog:
Total entries in this category:
Published On: Jul 30, 2009 10:32 AM
Total entries in this category:
Published On: Jul 30, 2009 10:32 AM
You Can't Make This Stuff Up...
If you've been reading this blog for a while, then
you know about all the wrangling in the Presbyterian Church USA about the
gays.
Basically the PCUSA position, if it were twittered, would be something like: gays icky & dirty.
There are those of us who are praying that one day the PCUSA will, as a denomination, finally see the light like the rest of us. Last summer we attempted to change our denominational Constitution to remove a prohibition against ordaining LGBT people. We followed the rules: We proposed the amendment (called an overture), it was submitted to the General Assembly for a vote, it won that vote and then went to the Presbyteries for their ratifaction. That failed by a very slim margin. That's the constitutionally mandated process. Decent and in order. Though it failed, the church Brian and I attend has already proposed a new overture to remove that prohibition. Again, completely decent and in order. (Note to the Layman: Thanks for all the free publicity!)
Anyway, you can find all this stuff elsewhere on my blog.
Some folks just can't handle all this and so they've decided to type some words on a piece of paper and call that taking a stand. (There's a history here, they do this after every General Assembly, the only difference is that this time they didn't call us all apostate and heretics.) To sum up their little Declaration ofIndependence Codependence, "Waaaaaah! You're
not the boss of me!!!"
Here's the irony: these are the folks who have brought ministers up on denominational charges for performing same-sex marriage ceremonies. That is, they have brought people up on charges for allegedly violating the Constitution of our denomination. These are the same people who have just written a statement basically say that, since folks like me are using the proper denominational channels to change our denomination (proposing overtures, voting on them, etc.), they're going to refuse to follow the Constitution that they have vowed to uphold in their ordination vows, because we're following the Constitution. And if we don't follow the Constitution, they'll bring charges against us for failing to follow the Constitution. It goes without saying that if I actually did what they're (impotently) threatening to do, they'd be the first to file charges. Remember also that the Presbyterian form of government is basically just like the US form of government. It's a republic, and when you're on the crappy end of a vote, you have to deal until the next vote. Apparently ignoring that process is now called being "classically presbyterian."
Huh?
All this because we won't just shut up like they've told us to.
Got all that? Yeah, it's pretty difficult to unwind all the irony and hypocrisy, but let me sum up: this is how they intend to break away from the denomination without actually doing anything real, like say, actually having the guts to break away from the denomination. They threaten to do exactly what they accuse everyone else of doing. Why just keep writing this declarations and not actually do something, you may ask? Well, it isn't for me to guess at their motives, though I can make some pretty good guesses (*ahem* pretty churches and tidy pensions *ahem*). Regardless of what they claim as their reasoning, instead of actually risking something, they just pout and stamp their feet like children. And yet, even though they have called past General Assemblies "apostate", even though they have called it "in error" more times than I can count, even though they are in communion with the very people they call "heretics", they still keep sending their commissioners to GA every two years. Yeah, they're clearly determined about this, aren't they?
You can't make this stuff up. I almost feel bad making fun of people who are so uneducated about the denomination in which they are already ministers. Almost. Then I just get annoyed that such tepid ineptitude gets ordained, while plenty of qualified LGBT people who actually know something about our denomination and our polity cannot get ordained.
Just to further illustrate how screwed up this declaration is, consider for a moment ... In the PCUSA, approval for ordination happens by vote. You either vote for the person to be ordained, or against. You can vote against someone for any reason, no one demands to know why you voted against the person. Even though the PCUSA allows the ordination of women, there are undoubtedly people in the denomination who vote against female candidates just because of their gender. And that's totally allowed. In addition, the installation of a pastor occurs through a vote of the congregation. Any person in the congregation can vote for or against the applicant for any reason, and no one demands to know why you voted against the person. All I want is the option to vote a candidate up or down. Now this "declaration" says that they refuse to vote for LGBT people for ordination. Period. Yet they refuse to allow anyone else the opportunity to vote their consciences.
Freedom of conscience ... good enough for them, not for everyone else.
(BTW, want to see something really funny? Look at this, which is the actual declaration. Notice the first comment at the bottom. You can't be too right wing for some people, apparently. LOLz)
OK, it's fun to criticize the mountains of irony and hypocrisy. But I don't want to be seen as just another whining complainer like them. Just to be clear, if these people actually believed in what they were writing in their cute little declaration, I wouldn't be mocking it. But they don't. At its foundation, this declaration is a call for what we Presbyterians call "local option". That is, the option of each individual ordaining body to decide whom it will and will not ordain. That was the "classically presbyterian" way to ordain candidates until folks like those who signed this declaration got involved. It was their actions, against local option, that have necessitated (in their minds) this declaration. They have met the enemy and they are them. All this declaration says is that they want to go back to local option ... themselves, but not for anyone else. They realize, apparently, the tangled mess they've created and how they've been hog-tied with their own rope. But now they want everyone else to obey their particular version of the constitution, but refuse to follow it themselves. If that isn't hypocrisy, I don't know what is.
But if they wanted to actually do the right thing and go back to the historical, traditional, classically Presbyterian way of doing things that we now call "local option", I'd sign a declaration to that effect immediately. We could ordain whom we believe God is calling, and they could do the same. Problem solved. (But they won't because busybodies, tattletales, fusspots, and scolds need to tell complete strangers -- strangers who worship in churches that they've never even heard of -- how to run those churches.)
Behold, the Gladys Kravitzing of the PCUSA.
OK, Gladys, I see we're "on notice. " Let me know, won't you, when we've moved to "Dead to me."
Basically the PCUSA position, if it were twittered, would be something like: gays icky & dirty.
There are those of us who are praying that one day the PCUSA will, as a denomination, finally see the light like the rest of us. Last summer we attempted to change our denominational Constitution to remove a prohibition against ordaining LGBT people. We followed the rules: We proposed the amendment (called an overture), it was submitted to the General Assembly for a vote, it won that vote and then went to the Presbyteries for their ratifaction. That failed by a very slim margin. That's the constitutionally mandated process. Decent and in order. Though it failed, the church Brian and I attend has already proposed a new overture to remove that prohibition. Again, completely decent and in order. (Note to the Layman: Thanks for all the free publicity!)
Anyway, you can find all this stuff elsewhere on my blog.
Some folks just can't handle all this and so they've decided to type some words on a piece of paper and call that taking a stand. (There's a history here, they do this after every General Assembly, the only difference is that this time they didn't call us all apostate and heretics.) To sum up their little Declaration of
Here's the irony: these are the folks who have brought ministers up on denominational charges for performing same-sex marriage ceremonies. That is, they have brought people up on charges for allegedly violating the Constitution of our denomination. These are the same people who have just written a statement basically say that, since folks like me are using the proper denominational channels to change our denomination (proposing overtures, voting on them, etc.), they're going to refuse to follow the Constitution that they have vowed to uphold in their ordination vows, because we're following the Constitution. And if we don't follow the Constitution, they'll bring charges against us for failing to follow the Constitution. It goes without saying that if I actually did what they're (impotently) threatening to do, they'd be the first to file charges. Remember also that the Presbyterian form of government is basically just like the US form of government. It's a republic, and when you're on the crappy end of a vote, you have to deal until the next vote. Apparently ignoring that process is now called being "classically presbyterian."
Huh?
All this because we won't just shut up like they've told us to.
Got all that? Yeah, it's pretty difficult to unwind all the irony and hypocrisy, but let me sum up: this is how they intend to break away from the denomination without actually doing anything real, like say, actually having the guts to break away from the denomination. They threaten to do exactly what they accuse everyone else of doing. Why just keep writing this declarations and not actually do something, you may ask? Well, it isn't for me to guess at their motives, though I can make some pretty good guesses (*ahem* pretty churches and tidy pensions *ahem*). Regardless of what they claim as their reasoning, instead of actually risking something, they just pout and stamp their feet like children. And yet, even though they have called past General Assemblies "apostate", even though they have called it "in error" more times than I can count, even though they are in communion with the very people they call "heretics", they still keep sending their commissioners to GA every two years. Yeah, they're clearly determined about this, aren't they?
You can't make this stuff up. I almost feel bad making fun of people who are so uneducated about the denomination in which they are already ministers. Almost. Then I just get annoyed that such tepid ineptitude gets ordained, while plenty of qualified LGBT people who actually know something about our denomination and our polity cannot get ordained.
Just to further illustrate how screwed up this declaration is, consider for a moment ... In the PCUSA, approval for ordination happens by vote. You either vote for the person to be ordained, or against. You can vote against someone for any reason, no one demands to know why you voted against the person. Even though the PCUSA allows the ordination of women, there are undoubtedly people in the denomination who vote against female candidates just because of their gender. And that's totally allowed. In addition, the installation of a pastor occurs through a vote of the congregation. Any person in the congregation can vote for or against the applicant for any reason, and no one demands to know why you voted against the person. All I want is the option to vote a candidate up or down. Now this "declaration" says that they refuse to vote for LGBT people for ordination. Period. Yet they refuse to allow anyone else the opportunity to vote their consciences.
Freedom of conscience ... good enough for them, not for everyone else.
(BTW, want to see something really funny? Look at this, which is the actual declaration. Notice the first comment at the bottom. You can't be too right wing for some people, apparently. LOLz)
OK, it's fun to criticize the mountains of irony and hypocrisy. But I don't want to be seen as just another whining complainer like them. Just to be clear, if these people actually believed in what they were writing in their cute little declaration, I wouldn't be mocking it. But they don't. At its foundation, this declaration is a call for what we Presbyterians call "local option". That is, the option of each individual ordaining body to decide whom it will and will not ordain. That was the "classically presbyterian" way to ordain candidates until folks like those who signed this declaration got involved. It was their actions, against local option, that have necessitated (in their minds) this declaration. They have met the enemy and they are them. All this declaration says is that they want to go back to local option ... themselves, but not for anyone else. They realize, apparently, the tangled mess they've created and how they've been hog-tied with their own rope. But now they want everyone else to obey their particular version of the constitution, but refuse to follow it themselves. If that isn't hypocrisy, I don't know what is.
But if they wanted to actually do the right thing and go back to the historical, traditional, classically Presbyterian way of doing things that we now call "local option", I'd sign a declaration to that effect immediately. We could ordain whom we believe God is calling, and they could do the same. Problem solved. (But they won't because busybodies, tattletales, fusspots, and scolds need to tell complete strangers -- strangers who worship in churches that they've never even heard of -- how to run those churches.)
Behold, the Gladys Kravitzing of the PCUSA.
OK, Gladys, I see we're "on notice. " Let me know, won't you, when we've moved to "Dead to me."
Posted: Wed - July 29, 2009 at 10:27 AM